1JZGTE problem, rev limiter/ idle

[GZP51]

mate i am running a fairly "stock" ecu, it does apparantly have the boost and speed cut defenders in them so who knows what maps they are running. injectors are stock.
TPS is an interesting issue that i have spoken to a couple of people about. There is more that i should fill you all in on:
I did not do this conversion being a mechanical n00b. Therefore the mechanics workshop that did do the car ( over a VERY long period of time ) seemed to have no experience in conversions even tho they did say that they could handle it all no sweat, but i am getting off topic.
What you should all know that when i went to pick the car up, (even tho it wasn't ready) they were having massive amounts of trouble getting the thing to idle, eventually a week later the car was ready and i picked it up that friday, the motor died on the following monday.
I took the car to a different mechanic ( surprise surprise ) and they did a motor swap but due to the rats nest of wires and everything being incredibly ugly underneath the bonnet they were loathe to touch anything that they did not have to and as they were moving shop they didn't have much time. What they did was remove the motor and left the inlet manifold in the car which they then bolted up to my new motor. When i picked the car up this time they told me "fuck knows what those other clowns have down with your TPS, we got it running for you but the teething problems are all yours!" Considering the circumstances and the speed at which they got the job done i am fine with that.
Now can someone tell me the best way to set a TPS? how to tell if it is kebabarooted? What should i look for? obviously it is idling high and sucking down some juice, when it hits my 5500 limiter it spits some copious fuel smoke out the back, could this be from the TPS? i spoke to neil griffiths about this and he seems to think it a possibility.
anyone else got some thoughts on the subject?
cheers
matt
p.s: i really hope to get this thing going by the 18th as i have a dyno date

[GZP51]

well well well,
mental note to self, i hate my car! lol!
Thanks for all your help tonight chris and your dad's as well! now at least you know the tempermentality of my car LOL!
Ok i met up with chris and we had a look see at what was wrong he had a look at my coil packs and they seemed AOK! the vaccuum lines seemed to be fine. ran the diagnostics and SHOCK HORROR it came up with code 13!
in an attempt to aleviate this ( i can't even remember what it was ) think it was crank angle sensor or ecu or some shit! Chris mentioned that he had a JZX81 ecu a very short drive away.... drove away we did.
We hooked up the JZX81 ECU after giving chris a short tutorial on how ECU clips are meant to work LOL! we drove up a short hill just slowly crawling (about 2000rpms) no sweat on the other side of the hill it started to chug like a massey ferguson and i didn't like it so i pulled over. You should have seen the fuel smoke, i have never seen anything like it, if i had of had a lit smoke at the time i think there might have been an explosion totalling 3-4 suburban residential blocks!
We tried to reset and restart the car to see if the JZX81 would self learn and no go! it was like it was trying to physically turn the whole motor with none of the internals moving. I was panicking like i had seized the frigging thing (if you had my run of luck with a car then you always assume the worst possible scenario). Right f*ck the JZX81 ecu off and put the JZA70 ecu back in... still no cranky cranky... push start??? yeah right all it did was lock up the back wheels even at 15-25 k/hr down a hill in 3rd or 2nd! pulled over and stood there scratching our noodles. Chris' dad arrived with torch and assorted other goodies. He then started scratching his noodle.
What could it be? reset the JZA70 ecu... it turned maybe 3 turns then CLUNK that physical trying to twist the motor off its mounts noise again... reset it again.. maybe 4-5 turns.. right.....
reset it again and it wound freely... sweet now START YOU BASTARD!!!! after a few minutes of winding and pumping the accelermatrix it finally spluttered... seemed like it was running on 5 cylinders tho... another reset... same result
Ripped out the first coil pack, checked number 1 and 2 spark plug, dry as a bone and no black, where is the fuel? Put them back in another reset and all of a sudden it was running on 4 cylinders! with the motor running pulled the leads of 1/2 coil pack no difference... ah hah!
ran diagnostics luckily chris had the paper clip on him, code 14! chris called his lovely fiancee and she looked it up for us. ignition something or other, (ie coil pack or igniter) so that coil pack is giving us trouble EUREKA! screw driver to the rocker cover with a spark plug and there was plenty of spark! WTF? changed coil packs (i was carrying another full set in the car) and same deal, changed to another one... same deal WTF!!!!!!!!!!! we were stumped... what the hell is going on?
We tried the screwdriver trick in both sides of coil pack yes it has spark, then we fitted plugs to both, yes they had spark and because we didn't have the coil pack in they were nice and black therefore we have fuel... there were no stray cats in my intercooler that we could see so therefore we had air. What more do you need?
called my brother and he said do another reset. too easy. Always started fine ran for 3 seconds and then the idle dropped into a rough heap.
did it again to make sure...
this time maybe 3 cylinders were working, it was definitely worse!
again, and all of a sudden it wouldn't start.
Again the trusty paper clip helped us out, still code 14 hmmm
paper slip to bridge B+ and Fp and it ran! badly but it ran... ok now what the hell?
called my bro again and he said maybe your map sensor is kebabarooted... well i just so happened to have a spare one dangling around in the engine bay, no idea what it is for but i knew that the car did run on it very poorly.
reset the ecu left the fuel pump bridged to 12v+ and it ran the best it had since it stopped! well maybe the map sensor is fubard, lets try to get the bastard to run without the fuel pump.
unbridged it and reset the ecu, it still ran, due to it being the incorrect map sensor for the car it was overfuelling and being a pig won't rev over 4000rpms now! but it got my home!
MANY THANKS to chris davey and his father and his understanding fiancee for letting him out to help me even thought it was a school night!
now i think i need a new map sensor! where is the best place to get them? should i get one to suit the JZA70 loom? or the JZZ30 motor? or are they one and the same?
just thought i would let you guys know what was going on, oh and due to the map sensor the check engine light is constantly on!
thanks again for the help
cheers
matt

[SL666]

go for one that matches the ECU.. but i thought you could swap it out with your mrs's car?

incidentally - i'd also be concerned that the wiring wasn't right somewhere...

Actually according to this

http://www.trackdaymedia.com/~manny/...anslation).pdf

it would sorta indicate crank angle sensor... or dodgy igniter, or both or generally dodgy wiring all round sorry

[chris davey]

The first code was 13 which was NE signal (crank) and suggested trying another ecu also so that is why we did that. I would have thought that if the crank angle sensor was rooted the car wouldn’t start at all, not just cut at 5500rpm. Also, the cut is not as harsh as my mates car that was running megalean because of map sensor.

The code 14 that we got after that is igniter, coil etc. igf signal hasn’t made it from the igniter to the ecu 6-8 times. So that is why we thought it wasn’t getting spark in cyl 1&2 however it definitely was as it was jumping about 5mm to the cam cover and my dad also got a zap and he said there is definitely a good spark there!

I definitely think it is something electrical. MAP sensor, TPS and Crank angle sensor should be checked and/or swapped. I have a spare TPS now, but I haven’t tested it before. Came with my throttle body from Skip.

Also, Matt I left my ecu in your car. So if you are coming back up this way I wouldn’t mind having it back just in case my microleb turns up some time!

Chris

[GZP51]

hahahah sorry chris i was just keen to get the frigging thing home, of course you can have it back mate i have no intention of running that thing in my car LOL
which map do i go for from toyota?

[chris davey]

No problem, I forgot all about it

I would get somebody with an EPC to do a part no. check on the Map sensor between jza70 and jzz30. I think they will be the same but best to check. I would swap in Susan’s map sensor as well. It is very strange that it wouldn’t start on a 1jz map sensor that it was running on before but started (albeit very rich) on that random map sensor.

Get Gavin to check over the wiring for TPS, CAS, MAP as well as in general as well I reckon. Something isn’t adding up.

[GZP51]

i totally agree, just got off the phone from suncoast toyota and they are looking up part numbers for me, got them to check the difference between jza70 and jzz30 map sensors, waiting to hear back from them. will get on to gavin tonight and see what he has to say. it is wierd that it ran fine (other than the 5500 limiter) with no codes and then the ecu swap started all these other dramas, my car is a very temperamental piece of shit
cheers
matt

[chris davey]

According to Manny’s site, Bridge Opt1 and E1 to check TPS switching. Looks like you should check o2 sensor as well but I don’t think it is that. No harm in trying.

Don’t know if it is worth trying the second part of the diagnosis which seems to be driving for a bit and then checking diagnostics again and it looks like it will give a more specific error code.

Oh and swap igniters as well

Manny: have you done the second type of diagnostics? Work well?

[manny]

Chris
Haven't had a need to run those extended diagnostics - no factory ECU in my Soarer for 4-5 years now.

Matt
Soarer MAP sensor has an orange label; JZA70 was green from memory (with a second Yellow labelled MAP for the guage on the strut tower) - I couldn't get my Soarer MAP to idle on my JZA70 but it was far from standard with bigger injectors, Toyota JZA70 Group N ECU and a HKS FCON-V hanging off it which may account for that.

When they refitted the intake manifold to the new engine with attached wiring loom, I fear they may have crimped/grounded and/or broken fragile wiring in the process. Would have been so much easier and safer to pull the loom back out of the firewall.

Sounds like it was hydraulic locking with fuel when running on Chris' JZX81 Chaser ECU! Easy way to bend/crack rod/piston/valves.... check the quality of your oil in case it's soaked in fuel now.

Have you pulled the ICSV out and checked if it was gunked up? May account for the high idle as may a poorly set or malfunctioning TPS.

Just out of curiosity, open the ECU case up and look for leaky caps on the PCBs... surprising how many probems these days are traced back to dodgy caps in ECUs.

[chris davey]

Thanks Manny.

Sounds like it was hydraulic locking with fuel when running on Chris' JZX81 Chaser ECU! Easy way to bend/crack rod/piston/valves.... check the quality of your oil in case it's soaked in fuel now.

That is what we thought. Didn't want to crank it over as it didn't sound good at all.

Have you pulled the ICSV out and checked if it was gunked up? May account for the high idle as may a poorly set or malfunctioning TPS.

Hasn't yet. Told Matt to do that last night but first things first was getting it started while stuck on the side of the road. I think it must be stuck open as Matt said vacuum was about 10 and there really didn't seem to be anything wrong with any of the vacuum lines.

[SL666]

the the map sensor is dodgy it might be trying to open the iscv heaps to get some vac happening.. (and yes i know thats backwards)

[chris davey]

I don’t quite understand what you mean? Either way, I suppose we will see when Matt whacks in another MAP sensor.

[GZP51]

ok just whacked in another map sensor and no go it still won't run or idle anymore but then putting in the dodgy jza70 yellow labelled map sensor the one that is meant to mounted on the strut tower i am assuming it runs... poorly but at least it runs.
So therefore, i am going to pull out the ISCV valve and check my oil for fuel, will let you know what happens, i spoke to lew radbourne last night and he mentioned all the dramas that he had when using a universal o2 sensor... what do you guys think?
cheers
matt

[SL666]

chris: if the map sensor is a different scale to the one its expecting, it might be thinking that there is less vac at idle than their should be, so its opening the iscv to bring the revs up so the car doesn't stall.. and if it thinks there is no vac (or maybe even boost) its pizzling in fuel..

could also be the iscv is stuck

this might sounds whacky, but perhaps you could put some sort of duty cycle measurement over the injectors individually, or check the plugs to make sure its not just one injector sticking open or something?

[chris davey]

I would think that as long as it has the same number of wires and the voltages to a/f ratio are the same it shouldn’t make a difference in theory.

Sl666: that makes sense