Aftermarket ecu installation questions. (7mgte)

[camrygt?]

the injector pairing isn't critical at this point to get the motor to started as it will mostly just sit in the manifold until the cylinder eventually sucks it in no matter how wrong it is.
If the ignition is correct the motor would probably even run off a tin of areostart/insect spray squirted into the manifold.

Wasted spark fires the spark on both exhaust and compression on 2 different cylinders at the same time so for coil 1 firing say cylinder 1 and 6. Cyl1 is on compression Cyl6 is on the exhaust stroke

If the firing order of your motor is 1 5 3 6 2 4

and your cylinders are connected to coils in pairs like this 1-6 2-5 3-4

then the first cylinder to fire must be 1 (6 is on exhaust stoke so ignore it) so connect this pair of coils to output one on the EMS

then following the firing order the next cylinder to fire is 5 (in this pair cyl no 2 is on exhaust stoke) so this pair must be connected to output 2 on EMS

then again from the firing order you next need to fire cylinder 3 (4 is on exhaust stroke so ignore it.) so connect this pair to output 3 of the ems

then you need to fire cyl 6 which is back to output 1 on the ems...then 2 is up next which is output 2 on ems then 4 which is output 3 on ems...get the idea
the outputs on the ems alternate 1...2..3...1...2..3..

so basically if the firing order of your motor is 1 5 3 6 2 4 then don't worry about your injectors for the moment. wire up the coils as I have said above and in my last post and I bet you a rep point that it starts. If the wires are long enough you may even be able to put them onto different cylinders without rewiring anything.

the sequence you have shown works if the firing order is 1 4 2 6 3 5 which is the same thing just in reverse?? so I presume if you spun the motor in the other direction it might work???

[camrygt?]

The standard 7mgte loom has injectors 1/4 2/6 and 3/5 paired so they would both fire when triggered,

Yet the coil packs fire 1/6 3/4 and 2/5 at the same time... i really don't understand that??

look at the injector timing in relation to the firing order of the motor 1-5-3-6-2-4

it is one cylinder behind the spark timing... which it needs to be because the fuel needs to arrived earlier in the cycle than the spark. so it injects fuel for cylinder 4 and 1 cylinder. 1 fires after cylinder 4 so fuel just sits in the manifold for a bit then 3/5 injectors fire giving fuel for the next 2 coming ignition evens which are 5 then 3.
Then 2/6 injectors fire giving fuel for next ignition event which is 6 then 2.

Just wire the ems like toyota have for the standard loom and all will be good. Check the sequencing from the firing order of the motor and all will make sense

[kemicalx]

thanks again everyone

Chuckster, the sensors look to be wired and grounded correctly, ie. all to the same point near the fuel rail, the CAS shielding is grounded into the EMS itself, but not at the sensor end. +rep for you

Camrygt, i'll give your wiring a shot now mate, and i'd give you rep regaurdless of whether it works, but i can't atm as I already gave you some.

[kemicalx]

well i'll give you partial credit it no longer locks up when trying to start, but it still won't actually kick over, will giving to much fuel cause this? I have increased the fuel trim across the whole rev range substainually to prevent any chance of extreme leaning out.

[camrygt?]

pull the spark plugs out and have a look at them, when the spark is going to the wrong cylinder it fouls them up incredibly quickly and they usually don't fire again after that. just clean them up with a rag and some sort of solvent and they work well enough to start it.

The timing of the injectors and hence the way you pair them up also has to do with when in the engine cycle the ecu actually sends out the pulses to trigger them. Hence some diagrams will show different pairing arangements. The toyota config may not be correct for the ems, but it should start with it

If you get it to start with the setup I mentioned before pehaps wire the injectors in the same way as the EMS loom was orginally but assume that the motor spins the other direction as that seems to be what was wrong with the spark (provided you actually get it to start like that) I hope that makes sense.. I have just been through the same thing on another cyl so I feel your pain

[kemicalx]

hmmm well, i can't seem to get a spark.. i haven't tried cleaning up all the plugs yet, but we used a working one from my mates 7m and rested it on the engine, then cranked it, and there still was no spark.. our timing light doesn't register anything either could the ignitor be fooked?

[doobs]

We also noticed a fair bit of fuel sitting in the cylinders, should that be cleaned out along with cleaning the plugs? or will it just be pumped out when the engine is cranked?

[kemicalx]

Well, I've cleaned off all plugs and tested them, they all spark fine in my astina, I've double checked the leads, and although the resistance does vary a bit they are all within spec. Coils are a little out, about .6-.7ohm but i wouldn't think that would be too bad.

I've installed another relay to ensure there is power to the ignition and injectors when the car is on AM2,

there was a nasty pop! on the first attempt at kicking it over, this was dismissed as a backfire, but considering it hasn't done it since and we can not get a spark anymore (we did have one at one stage) perhaps the ignitor is shagged..

[camrygt?]

if you can see liquid fuel in the motor you definetly need to get rid of it.

unplug the ecu and move all of the coils away from the motor, spray compressed air into the cylinders with the plugs out and soak up the fuel that sprays out with a rag.

when you have as much out as you can crank the motor with the plugs out (make sure nothing that makes sparks is anywhere near the cylindersr)

if you can see fuel on the piston the oil will also be full of fuel so change it before you try to start it again

Pull all of the injector plugs off and don't put them back on until you are 100% sure that you have spark or it will flood again

a small amount of fuel can be pumped away but not if you can see it sitting on the pistons

[kemicalx]

ahhh well that could be a problem, cos there is a fair ammount of fuel in them. And quite a noticable fuel smell after each attempt at kick it over :S

[kemicalx]

well cause of pop is now apparent, one of my injectors has clearly blown, with plugs out and injectors disconnected, kicking the engine over results is a geyser of fuel from cylinder 6, quite a pain in the ass that i have to change it now.. i just hope it hasn't fucked anything up in the cylinder

[doobs]

Jez im missing out on the action.

Is your injector nackered? or did it just pop out? Theres a box over near my drivers side wheel with 6, 7m injectors in it if you need to use one, but dont destroy it , im sellin them soon

Well I'll see how ya goin soon

[kemicalx]

fuel rail is off, injector is definatly bung as it can be blown
through when disconnected. Thankfully Bursons can get replacement injectors for $50 so thats not a big deal,

So now i'm just trying to get the ignition working, which is proving to be quite dificult.
as i said, all plugs and leads are fine, the coils are only just out of
spec. The ems is registering an RPM signal, yet there isn't a spark, Is there a way of forcing a spark? like grounding one of the ignitor ignition inputs or something? I don't know how to isolate the ignitor as the problem.

[kemicalx]

Well time for an update,

I’ve replaced the bung injector, know i have spark and still can't get it to actually kick over, I'm presuming it is a timing issue now, as regardless of sensor readings i would have thought if there’s fuel being sprayed in, and a spark being fired at the right time the engine would at the very least try and "broom broom" kick over instead of just whining on the starter motor.

Would it be likely i have to do any adjustment to the CPS? Like twisting the position of sync wheel? As a bloke on the EMS forums said:

Check the timing of the pickups in regard to TDC.
sync must be positioned between the last tooth on the trigger wheel and the first for TDC on number one cylinder.

I noticed when you realign the 7m CPS and then insert it with the engine at TDC, the previously aligned sync tooth gets turned away from its sensor. So perhaps this is the problem?

[BlackSupra]

Well time for an update,

I’ve replaced the bung injector, know i have spark and still can't get it to actually kick over, I'm presuming it is a timing issue now, as regardless of sensor readings i would have thought if there’s fuel being sprayed in, and a spark being fired at the right time the engine would at the very least try and "broom broom" kick over instead of just whining on the starter motor.

Would it be likely i have to do any adjustment to the CPS? Like twisting the position of sync wheel? As a bloke on the EMS forums said:

Check the timing of the pickups in regard to TDC.
sync must be positioned between the last tooth on the trigger wheel and the first for TDC on number one cylinder.

I noticed when you realign the 7m CPS and then insert it with the engine at TDC, the previously aligned sync tooth gets turned away from its sensor. So perhaps this is the problem?

Take the plastic cover off the CPS when installing it. Align it up that way, then you still have the elongated bolt hole to make further minor adjustments.