Aftermarket ecu installation questions. (7mgte)

[30psi 4agte]

let me think a min



i still think they should be paired together. ie inj same as ign and vice versa

[thechuckster]

maybe this will help you understand it (from autoshop101, H22.pdf, page 15):

(hosted on flickr).

each fuel injection event is for the cylinder just about to open it's inlet valves and the one afterwards.

each spark event is for the pair of cylinders that are just about to approach TDC.

two totally different things.


convinced yet?

cheers,
Charles

[CrUZida]

i still think they should be paired together. ie inj same as ign and vice versa

At the end of the day it doesn't matter a shit what 2 injectors are paired.
The fuel is going to sit on the back of the valve until it opens and is pushed in by the air.

Remember, some motors batch fire.

The reason you pair them like this is because of the firing order.
The firing order is 1–5–3–6–2–4

There for 1-5, 3-6, 2-4, on drivers #1, #2 and #3 respectively.
This way the fuel is sitting on the back of the valve for the shortest time possible.
The factory has them as 1-4, 2-6, 3-5, which in a way is the same, just offset by one.

The coils will be on 1-6, 5-2, 3-4, on drivers #1, #2 and #3 respectively.

[CrUZida]

Excuse the previous post above.

Before I edited it, I had the wrong firing order.

I typed in google "7mgte firing order" and got this quote

From left to right the firing order is 163425

This is actually the plug order on the coil packs (1-6, 3-4, 2-5) NOT the firing order like I presumed.

[kemicalx]

guys thanks for all your help so far, rep has been given out where i can,

Using "Start ya bastard" i can get the engine to kick over for a split second. Also from listening to a screw driver on the injectors it sounds as though they are not firing, as there is defininatly not a continued clicking sound. however, after a few unsucsessful attempts at kicking it over the spark plugs are wet, could they be malfunctioning? I replaced the filters in the backs on them along with the o-rings and what not, although i thought i had done it fine I've had one blow up, and the others don't appear to be working correctly.. Perhaps i've stuffed them up.

Alternatively I guess they could be incorrectly setup in the EMS software.

edit - injectors were listened to while the fuel pump was disconnected, would the lack of fuel pressure effect their operation?

edit 2 - reading here, http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/june98/techtotech.htm i'm thinking it might, i'll connect up the fuel pump and give it another whirl.'

and finally, edit 3 - no diference, though there is definatly an injector click when the key drops back from AM1 to AM2

[camrygt?]

If the engine runs on start ya bastard you are definately close. I've had a 1JZ run for about 10 seconds by continuously spraying little squits into the brake booster hose.

The injectors usually click without fuel pressure.

Get a LED test light or if you can't find one of those make one from 2 ordinary leds. Join them both together (in parallel) but wire one up backwards. put 1 390ish ohm resistor in series. That will ensure at least 1 led will always work even if you wire it all up backwards.
put that across an injector and watch for short pulses when cranking.

Often a globe type test light will not visibly light up with a short injector pulse. LED ones you can always see it especially if its a bit dark.

Check that you have power on 1 of the wires on each injector with the ignition on and its also worth checking while it is cranking as some ignition wires loose power when the car cranks (like the power for fans, air con etc)

[30psi 4agte]

guys thanks for all your help so far, rep has been given out where i can,

Using "Start ya bastard" i can get the engine to kick over for a split second. Also from listening to a screw driver on the injectors it sounds as though they are not firing, as there is defininatly not a continued clicking sound. however, after a few unsucsessful attempts at kicking it over the spark plugs are wet, could they be malfunctioning? I replaced the filters in the backs on them along with the o-rings and what not, although i thought i had done it fine I've had one blow up, and the others don't appear to be working correctly.. Perhaps i've stuffed them up.

Alternatively I guess they could be incorrectly setup in the EMS software.

edit - injectors were listened to while the fuel pump was disconnected, would the lack of fuel pressure effect their operation?

edit 2 - reading here, http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/june98/techtotech.htm i'm thinking it might, i'll connect up the fuel pump and give it another whirl.'

and finally, edit 3 - no diference, though there is definatly an injector click when the key drops back from AM1 to AM2

have you set the injector ohms in the ecu ????

[kemicalx]

If the engine runs on start ya bastard you are definately close. I've had a 1JZ run for about 10 seconds by continuously spraying little squits into the brake booster hose.

The injectors usually click without fuel pressure.

Get a LED test light or if you can't find one of those make one from 2 ordinary leds. Join them both together (in parallel) but wire one up backwards. put 1 390ish ohm resistor in series. That will ensure at least 1 led will always work even if you wire it all up backwards.
put that across an injector and watch for short pulses when cranking.

Often a globe type test light will not visibly light up with a short injector pulse. LED ones you can always see it especially if its a bit dark.

Check that you have power on 1 of the wires on each injector with the ignition on and its also worth checking while it is cranking as some ignition wires loose power when the car cranks (like the power for fans, air con etc)

nice mate thanks a heap for that, i've been wondering how to capture the injection event with test equipment, the mulitmeter aint quick enough.

[kemicalx]

have you set the injector ohms in the ecu ????

yep they are set at 3.0ohm at present thought he injectors are closer to 3.2ohm, the next option in the software is 3.5

[30psi 4agte]

so you are using option 7 for 3.5 ohms????

[camrygt?]

3 ohms is close enough. good old LEDS..much cheaper than an oscilloscope

don't worry about the injector pairing until it starts. remember old ED falcons still ran OK with 1 fuel injector and 6 cylinders the fuel just sits there until its needed

[kemicalx]

Well I’ve discovered more problems that can be resolved pretty easily,

I’ve wired the injector plugs on injectors 1 and 4 in opposing polarities, and the plug on injector two has a buggered up pin, but other than that, besides number two (due to plug pin) all plugs had a pulse

[thechuckster]

injectors are not polarised - 1 bent pin shouldn't render the engine unstartable.. damn.

[CrUZida]

How many times does one pulse with respect to the timing light?

[kemicalx]

more testing done.. and things are getting bizarre

now,

- I can get it to kick into life for a second or two using "Start Ya Basted"

- using a timing light with the inductive pickup connected to spark lead #6 my timing appears to be dead on 10 degrees

- with all spark plugs out of the engine, but connected to leads and resting on grounds they all spark.

Using the test light Camrygt described i have found:

- I can get erratic flashing (not consistant flash, flash, flash, flash, flash) from all injector plugs when all the spark plugs are out and the engine is freely rotating on the starter motor (ie WHIRRRRRRRRR!!) lol

- With all spark plugs installed but not connected, and engine now having to compress to rotate (ie. REV REV REV REV) i get no flashing at the test light.

I am well and truely without a clue as to whats going on. I emailed EMS and they don't think that the ECU would fail in the injector section, and the fact that it sometimes sort of works, suggests perhaps it isn't the ecu. If the ecu was buggered i'd expect it to work or not work, not a bit of both.