Wideband O2 sensors, a few questions.

[The Witzl]

I personally use an Innovate LC-1 on my 18R-GE with Megasquirt-2 ECU.

The reason I went for the Innovate was price, and that it is a much more "finished" product than the Tech-Edge units.
Also, since my Megaquirt ECU has autotune functions and reads the linear 0-5V signal, i didnt need any of the fancy datalogging and crap that the TechEdge does - because the megasquirt tuning software does all that and more.


For a direct comparison - Innovate LC-1 is closest to TechEdge 2J1, but with just a little more functionality in the LC-1.

If only Techedge would employ a good web designer, they would probably have my vote..... but i cant for the life of my stand their website. It gives me a headache!!
Dont forget to add GST to the techedge prices too.


On a side note.... i have recently talked to one of the Kit developers at Silicon Chip magazine (the guys who design the Jaycar kits). They are in the midst of developing a wideband oxygen sensor controller kit with AFR gauge, which will also have a separate programmable output for linear 0-5V signal or simulated narrowband signal..... so you can give oxygen sensor signal to the ECU and display AFR simultaneously.
Might take a while to be realised though

[chris davey]

The haltech looks to be a rebadged Innovative LC-1 with an XD gauge with haltech logo on it.

was going to say the same thing.

My old school techedge 2e0 still serves me well recommended. the fella that runs the techedge site is bloody smart and basically just chooses to share all the tech info on the site rather than hide it like others. He is very helpful. Plus Aussie company so I reckon go with them

[The Witzl]

yeah but he could share the info in a way that doesnt require a degree in psychology to understand the inner workings of the website's psyche

[YLD-16L]

What you said...

yeah but he could share the info in a way that doesnt require a degree in psychology to understand the inner workings of the website's psyche

What you meant......

his website lacks boobs

[infotechplus]

If it had boobs, it would have a psyche AND it would require psychology to understand it.

[Yes, I'm married - 33 years to be precise! ]

PS. This is getting more confusing as I read various forums and people's preferences, but I should expect that.

Looked over at one of the Mitsubishi Forums and they seemed to favour this unit

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm



Pricing is competitive and has a wide range of options.


Cheers,

Peter

[takai]

http://www.14point7.com/JAW/JAW.htm < thats the kit im getting to try out. Ill compare it to both a 2A1 and a LC1. Just for kicks.

[MWP]

These cheapish kits make me wonder about the accuracy though.

I remember reading a few years ago an email by Bowling & Grippo (megasquirt creators) about how much trouble they were having creating a accurate WB-EGO controller.
They listed a heap of reasons as to why it was so difficult and that other WB-EGO kits didnt address these problems.

[infotechplus]

Well, I've googled through a number of forums - VW, Corvette, BMW, Honda and a couple of others in the US - and they having nothing but good things to say about the Zeitronix gear. Almost sounds too good to be true but the reports from people who have used the kits suggest they are well built and function as advertised. I also like the idea of adding extra capabilities, and having spares (eg. sensors, cables). A full kit with enough spares for a 2nd car runs at about $800 (plus $40 delivery from the US).

I've emailed the TechEdge guys three times now over the last couple of days without any response, but I'll give it till next week before making a decision. Hopefully I'll hear from them before then, otherwise the decision will be fairly clearcut. The TechEdge kits would be about the same price with the same features/options I'm after so its a matter of what works as opposed to it being a $$$ price-based decision.

Still happy to take comments from anyone on here with experience in wideband tuning, and recommendations for gear.

One thing I'm starting to realise is that with all this gear, over time the scaling down of what used to be purely the domain of the workshops/tuners/dynoshops, has brought wideband tuning down to a level that individuals can afford. However, this scaling-down has some inherent problems that most, if not all, the manufacturers have to live with, so it could be a case of which manufacturer has the LEAST known problems with their kits.

Still, they should be commended for their efforts, and as one poster said on a forum, all the gear is reasonably good, reasonably priced, and usable without a PhD in Quantum Engineering. But like anything that requires a reasonable outlay of funds, you want to know that you are getting value for your dollar and that the gear will do what you want to do without giving you a PITA.

PS. And to the person who wrote that review "AF Meter Shootout" in ImportTuner (www.importtuner.com) and the proofreader who subedited it - read it again - its one of the worst published pieces you'll ever read in terms of grammar, spelling and punctuation. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry!

Cheers,

Peter

[YLD-16L]

As you've noted Peter, go with an established brand and you'll be hard pressed to go wrong.

If you get the Zietronix item you'll have to let us know how it goes as it appears you'll be the first on this forum to use/own one.

[1JZ-Rolla]

I've had the TechEdge 2J1 fitted permanently to my 1JZ for well over a year now, can't say enough for it, i'm a huge fan! Very simple to use and setup, accurate, quick to respond, and has several nice "smarts" like auto brightness adjustment for day/night on the display.

I know of two first hand experiences in Canberra with the Innovate unit involving poor reliability, and even worse after sales support.

Go with the local product, you won't be disappointed. In person the guys at TechEdge are really good to deal with, despite the technically oriented website

Cheers
Phil

[JustCallMeOrlando]

My 2CO arrived with a freaky firmware that meant it was reading correctly, but pumping all sorts of random shit out of the serial port. A new firmware and and its been perfect ever since, permanently mounted in the XX.

[oldcorollas]

here is some oooold info about the general idea..
http://www.megamanual.com/PWC/index.htm
but last time a "state of the union" address came was 2006

It has been a while on any updates on the PWC, mainly because I (Bruce) have been perfroming more research on the operation of the sensor and its proper use. What I am trying to do is prevent yet another "engineering" implementation for the wideband, so prevalent nowadays. There are many EEs who know how to whip up a drive circuit to operate the sensor head, but it turns out there is much, much more to the proper use of the wideband than just a pump feedback circuit. Just as important as the circuit or software is how the sensor perceives the exhaust gas and how it relates back to original mixture. Misfire events (which happens more than you think) will introduce both excess oxygen (because of the lack of combustion) and excess hydrocarbons (also due to the lack of burning), screws up sensor readings. In addition, the relative percentage of gas maldistribution due to cylinder cycle-to-cycle variations will also skew the readings. Although these effects cannot be totally eliminated, they can be addressed in an average sense and the sensor compensation on a statistical nature. Also, the ability of changing the defined hydrocarbon on the fly is required for setups with ethanol, nitrous, or water injection. You cannot use the "default" Bosch curve for any hydrocarbon other than the one tested - well, you can, but the numbers will not be correct.

what are the main issues with the LC1?

also remember that since most users have no other means of calibration, even tho a WB circuit "works" it may be far from "accurate"?

[JZA70 R]

In addition, the relative percentage of gas maldistribution due to cylinder cycle-to-cycle variations will also skew the readings. Although these effects cannot be totally eliminated, they can be addressed in an average sense and the sensor compensation on a statistical nature.

innovate state their LC-1 internal processer is fast enough to sense individual cylinder 'pockets' of exhaust gas, but these samples and added together and averaged out and sent to bus so the user see's a much smoother end result. This can be modified to suit if required and im guessing this is somewhat addressing what ive quoted above.

You can check the innovate forums for common problems with the LC-1 however im unaware of any then again ive never browsed the forums. IMO it doesnt get any better then innovate.

Also what do you mean most users have no other means of calibration?...

[oldcorollas]

i mean, no way to possibly check if their sensor is actually correct... or say.. out by 0.5 or 1 AFR...
not many people have temp controlled gas rigs lying around...

so users might say "yeah it's grouse mouse" when it is actually reading wrong, but as long as it gives a number, they are happy

ie, not all driver circuits are good/great/ideal?

[JP]

main issues I've seen with LC1's is people dont follow instructions and install them incorrectly, you need a good power source and good grounding. On the innovative forums I also see people complaining about E8 errors on decel but I've not personally experienced this with any of my LC1's.

There was a batch a while ago with a fault, those units were replaced by innovative under warranty.

It's pretty easy to calibrate the LC1, remove the sensor from the exhaust so it's in free air, and ground the cal wire. If you've got an XD16 gauge connected then you press the datalog button on the XD gauge 3 times to prepare it for cal mode, then once again to do the sensor calibration. Once again, sensor needs to be in free air for the calibration.

If you want to do a heater calibration too, just unplug the sensor from the controller, power up the controller, then power it off and reconnect the sensor. On the first powerup after sensor disconnection it will perform a heater and sensor calibration.

All my units read spot on in comparison to a dyno dynamics wideband after they've had the free-air calibration.