For the love of a tractor engine: The life and times of the 18R-G

[RA35GT]

So, who knows anything about the TRD 18RG oil pump??

[o_man_ra23]

ill get my dyno sheet tomorrow.... and post it up. i dont want more power or massive gains.

i just want it to rev a bit freelyer... if thats a word :/

im doing an adjustable cam gear which my tuner said will get the cam to hold on to about 5500 ish. if i can just get 800 or even 500 more revs and a more rev happy engine from porting i will be happy... extatic infact.

Forget power. Ignore it, it plays no relevance to what you want. You want TORQUE. To compare power, you multiply torque by RPM. Hence, if you keep the same torque, and increase the RPM, you get more power. Once you get that concept through your head, you will begin to understand what your problem really is.

Now, by adjusting the timing of a single camshaft by means of an adjustable cam gear, you will not be adjusting the all importance (for higher RPM) overlap. This is where the intake and exhaust valves are open at the same time, which allows the inertia of the gasses escaping through the exhaust valve to suck in fresh air/fuel mix - acting like a natural supercharger (similar concept to what is used in pipe tuning for 2 strokes). This causes a bad situation at low RPM where you are effectively spewing fuel out the exhaust, hence a high RPM engine will idle rough as guts and sound 'lumpy'.

To be able to 'rev freelyer' as you put it, you need to have torque at the top end to continue to push the engine to higher RPM. Without it, the engine will rev as free as a daisy when unloaded, but as soon as you get out on the track to pull a drift, you will look like an underpowered tool and the car will not respond properly. So by moving the torque up the rev range, you are increasing power (see earlier relationship between torque and power).

What you will need as a number 1 step is a cam which will allow high RPM. It should idle worse - that is a good sign. A 'mild' cam is not what you need - they are designed to maximise the output in the factory designed rev range (ie below 5000rpm). This is evident by the bulk of your torque coming around 2000rpm - this cam will never satisfy your wants if that is the case. You need something with more overlap, longer duration, and higher lift. Once you get that right, you will notice very quickly the difference. If it still won't rev (which it won't - but the torque at the upper band of the current rev range will blow you away), then look at the ignition and ECU map. These will be wrong in a very bad way with a stock ECU and ignition system. And with the very primitive system used by the 22RE, it will be extremely hard to correct it to the point you want without changing them out (and upgrading to an aftermarket ECU will get rid of another huge restriction - the factory airflow meter)

If you don't want to listen, go ahead and waste time/money on an adjustable cam gear and porting. These are not your restrictions and the gains will be so shitty you will be disappointed with yourself.

[JustenGT8]

So, who knows anything about the TRD 18RG oil pump??

Yep, can't buy them any more At the time i bought mine it was the last in Oz. Basically a higher volume pump.

[RA35GT]

Presumedly its higher volume than the 18RG one also?

[JustenGT8]

err that's what i said?

[timbosaurus]

made the same amount as torque as a stock 20v 4age.

That's a bit disappointing. U have a 2.4L compared to a 1.6L, and unlike power, torque on any healthy n/a engine is *pretty close to* linear with capacity.

i dont wanna change computers and all that expensive shit. i just wanna replace head do some porting and see what happens...

Then u'll be wildly disappointed.

Engines need two fundamental things to run. Accurate air/fuel mixture, and suitable ignition timing. And u'll only get this through the 'expensive shit' called a programmable ecu.

In reality, a programmable ecu can be found cheaper than headwork would cost.

[RA35GT]

err that's what i said?

LOL, sorry, got me a little brain tied.

Was thinking 18R when I posted that. (Hrmm, thinking about 18R's, that's a little sad).

Have bid, hopefully get it!

May even reverse engineer if there is enough interest.

[Slidin23]

so i will not see any gains at all from head porting/port matching and flowing at all with the stock ecu? not even a little? like i said im not after gains in leaps and bounds. im just trying to limit my cheap mods.

i have a spare head here which looks like the port casting are well shit. and it to me looks like and by what i have read on the american fourms that i will gain a little bit then reach the limit of cheaper mods.

my dads friend is a head rebuilder and can sort all the porting out and everthing rather cheap.. eg under 100 bucks... that was the quote i have recived today...

im just wondering. has. anyone. done. this. on. a 22re. with the same specs i have? what was your gain if any?

im also getting valve float at 6000 rpm... so the springs are in need of a change. and as im racing it i was going to do the head anyway as we done a rush job when swaping over the cam and didnt pull the head off to replace head gasket (cam gear bolts are the head bolts on this)

if no one has done this and noticed anything. well i guess ill just do it and see what happens and if any gains are made.

i will get my dyno sheet tomorrow and post it up.... then when i do the head adjustable cam gear and porting ect ill post up my dyno resualts from that. and see if there is any gains.

cheers for your help. and well probaly streessing you out a little

[o_man_ra23]

In the rev range you are talking about, I have this experience with an 18R-G:

Porting did nothing. It wasn't until above 6000rpm that it made the slightest of noticeable difference.
Putting a 22RE dizzy centre and ignitor reduced top end performance. Pulling it back out and putting a stock 18R-G points dizzy back in improved the top end to where it should have been.
Adjusting the cams only made a noticeable difference when they were adjusted in opposition to each other - something which cannot be done with a single cam 22R-E

So although I haven't ported a 22R-E, I can tell you that it won't help you acheive what you want. It is worth doing long term, however it won't make any difference until you get the extra revs you desire by other means.

I can also say that the stock 22R-E I rebuilt had LOTS of mid range torque. A very huge amount more than any NA 4A-GE could ever hope for. That motor ran a pod filter, extractors, and a 2" exhaust, no porting, stock compression, stock cam, stock ECU, stock ignition. It didn't rev, but it didn't need to. Have you done a compression test on your engine as it sounds like you have a problem.

[JustenGT8]

hey all, after a bit of advice and really there's only a small group that will be interested anyways. In juggling projects (houses included) it makes sense to sell my 18RG gear that i have been collecting for the KE proj. A good package of gear including:

Complete 2.4 litre bored and stroked 18RG.
Mild reground cams (need to find specs)
New forged pistons
spare set of 18RG rods
ITBs with manifold, fuel rail, injectors, ram tubes, linkages etc
Stinger ECU to run the show
Both setups for auto (flex plate, converter 22R box) or manual (flywheel)
Misc parts (spare inlet manifold for carbies etc).

Ideally, i'd like to sell as a package but pricing is an issue? I mean, just the ITBs are over $1K once you have all the extras. Probably an easy $3K there in bits in total, but i can't see anyone paying that for an 18RG package, no matter how good it is? A small market and needs an enthusiast really. Thoughts?

[damian]

has anyone got a set of factory 18rg carbies? deciding the efi setup is going to be a nightmare so i figure carbie would be easier

PM sent 10ch

[bholmberg]

This caught my attention:

Putting a 22RE dizzy centre and ignitor reduced top end performance. Pulling it back out and putting a stock 18R-G points dizzy back in improved the top end to where it should have been.

I noticed the same thing... did you end up sticking with the points? or is there a way to keep the top end while avoiding points?

[o_man_ra23]

With that motor I believe I went back to the points (ask Norbie what gear got sold to him - that's where that motor went). Current motor I went with a locked dizzy running 22R-E sensor, found it ok, but a bit too wavery for the accuracy of the MS2 ECU, so with the new MS3 ECU, I have gone with a dual sensor system - 24-1 tooth crank angle sensor and single tooth cam angle sensor to replace the dizzy, and I'll be running coil on plug. But that's in anticipation of having a really high revving and powerful engine - much more than the 7krpm 146flywheel hp of a stock 18R-G.

[river]

Hi,

I cannot beleive this fine, proud thread has been tainted by talk about a lesser engine.

Let's get back to talking about Toyoto's engineering masterpiece... the indefatiguable 18R-G.

seeyuzz
river

[Slidin23]

while on the subject of modding the 18rg coil (i also have an 18rg in my race celica) did you say its worse going to electronic coil in a racing hi rev situation? was looking at converting mine to electronic and pissing off the point's system.....

so should i stay point? never had a problem with them... i was just aware there was some hp gains and reliability in ditching the points system....