How does it work: 4age oil pump?

[oldcorollas]

Toga pumps here have AISIN printed on it = OEM toyota supplier... (7A motor build)

http://www.tunemytoyota.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2665
http://i941.photobucket.com/albums/a...rolla97/42.jpg

[dangdang]

So if they are OEM supplier produced what makes them high volume?

Are the gears wider?

[shoom]

doesnt the 1G oil pump fit the 4ag?

[assassin10000]

I measured both the early & late 4age gears, it IS thicker/higher volume.

http://www.hachiroku.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15957



BUT, there is a 'wave' style available that is NOT as thick. Dan/oldeskewltoy found that out before I bought mine.





Andrew

[oldcorollas]

do you happen to have toyota part numbers for each type?

[Bazda]

My Toga pump was quite different to the stock OEM units I was buying brand new.
Both pumps are around the same price in NZ.

The casting on the Toga had a really fine grain. The toyota ones were alot smoother looking.
The crank seal was not a genuine toyota item, I binned the crank seal and put a toyota seal on it.
The oil gallery plugs stuck way further out on the Toga unit compared to the Toyota OEM ones.

I should of pulled it apart when I had the chance but I just wanted to put the eng together.

I never took any notice of the "High Volume", means nothing to be at all, I always knew it most likely could not pump their claimed % over the stock pumps. But what you must look at is they say the gears are made of 4130 steel!, if that is true then it is def worth buying. I will soon find out when I get the car back to some track events next year.

[oldcorollas]

if you give me a sample, i can tell you if it is 4130 (non-destructive testing... i'll just stick it in microscope and check composition )

interesting choice going for that kind of chromoly... why not 4340 or similar?

[Bazda]

Im getting a friend to pull his apart if he hasnt yet installed it.

[assassin10000]

do you happen to have toyota part numbers for each type?

Older square cut gears
15121-16010 drive/inner gear, 15123-16010 driven/outer gear
pumps:
15100-19025 (largeport/some GZE)
15100-19026 (largeport/some GZE; superseeded #? uses same internal gear part #'s)

Thicker wave style gear
15103-16030 only avail as inner/outer gear 'set'
pumps:
15100-19036 (smallport/some GZE/silvertop)
15100-19045 (blacktop)

Andrew

[banana_socks]

At what point do the standard pumps run into issues? Is it purely based on the max rpms you'll be pushing, or a combination of that and power levels?

[oldcorollas]

should just be rpm??... oil pump doesn't know power level, and it has it's pressure limited, so at full noise the difference in oil use thru bearings is neither here nor there, just changes the amount of oil bled off to keep pressure down...

[Sam_Q]

I am also interested in this TOGA model, reading this thread makes me worried about breaking my pump.

[oldeskewltoy]

At what point do the standard pumps run into issues? Is it purely based on the max rpms you'll be pushing, or a combination of that and power levels?

I don't know why power levels would have anything to do with it... 4AGZE uses the same pump.

No, I'm pretty sure failure is directly related to sustained rpm use upto and over 8k.

I also STRONGLY recommend using assembly lube in the pump BEFORE assembly of the engine...

[assassin10000]

Hmmm, a few random thoughts on this:
I wonder if there is a point where the relief valve passage won't bypass enough causing it to overload the gears at high RPM? (I'm thinking no/doubtful on this one, but I didn't look into it.)
Could the cars that this has happened on been due to momentary starvation (due to G's) causing metal to metal contact INSIDE the pump?


I know one guys motor was running up to 9200 RPM (ST) with no problems for drifting. This is actually the first time I've heard of problems with the later design pumps.

Andrew

[oldcorollas]

pressure, that is a possibility, but should see it on the gauge/log?

i wonder if the vapor pressure of hot oil is high enough to allow cavitation? or if flow through the pickup could be an issue as well?
if even slightly aerated oil is being sucked up by the pump, then cavitation would be a real concern, but would think bearings would die before the pump dies from running dry?

it is highly unlikely to be due to cornering G's if a drift car