How does it work: 4age oil pump?

[Bazda]

The stock oil pumps are ok to an extent. Any long abuse over 8000rpm they can fail (crack the gears as they are only made of sintered steel).
I had the issue where the gears kept eating each other in my boosted application track use. So i've gone and bought a Toga pump to try it out as the material the gears are made out of are alot stronger (4130 steel).

Also the pump in the pic def wont have square cut gears :S. They will have the same size gears as the 4a (bigger pumps)

[ArubaAe86]

The stock oil pumps are ok to an extent. Any long abuse over 8000rpm they can fail (crack the gears as they are only made of sintered steel).
I had the issue where the gears kept eating each other in my boosted application track use. So i've gone and bought a Toga pump to try it out as the material the gears are made out of are alot stronger ().

Also the pump in the pic def wont have square cut gears :S. They will have the same size gears as the 4a (bigger pumps)

Thanks for the reply Bazda, I see you have a 20v setup also. What is your setup to reach such a high HP?

[assassin10000]

The stock oil pumps are ok to an extent. Any long abuse over 8000rpm they can fail (crack the gears as they are only made of sintered steel).
I had the issue where the gears kept eating each other in my boosted application track use. So i've gone and bought a Toga pump to try it out as the material the gears are made out of are alot stronger (4130 steel).

Also the pump in the pic def wont have square cut gears :S. They will have the same size gears as the 4a (bigger pumps)

I agree, to some extent. The older style gears which are square cut have a cracking problem above 7.5k. That's why TRD made a stronger set, but even THOSE were prone to breaking. As for the one pictured having the having or not having square cut gears. I'm betting it will have square cut gears, or triangular shaped ones (4ac) as that style plate is for that style gear.

Top is square cut, bottom is round cut.


Square cut design housing bolt pattern & shapes


Round cut design housing bolt pattern & shapes

There were 5 different pumps, with 4 different gear designs that I came across that IIRC.

4AC had 2, triangular shaped gear, and a thinner 'wave' style. (2x different pumps/gears)

4AG Bigport 16V & Early GZE had square cut and is the one TRD made the reinforced set for. (1x different pumps, 1x gears)

4AG Smallport 16V, Late GZE & Silvertop 20V had a thicker 'wave' style. It was available on the smallport and Late GZE, but may have only been available towards the end of production. As I think one or two smallport owners have reported the older style gears on their motors. (1x pump, 1x gears)

4AG Blacktop 20V had only one style, the same thicker wave style as the smallport/lateGZE/silvertop BUT the housing incorporated the hydraulic timing belt tensioner. (1x pump, same gear as above)


Smallport (late production?), Late model GZE, Silvertop 20v & Blacktop 20v all share the same internal gear part number. The thicker gear means it's both higher volume AND stronger. Also because it's a sinusoidal wave without 'hard' corners it is much less prone to cracking/breaking.


Andrew

[dangdang]

I opened mine up on Friday to prime before fitment and as with the above link if you want the latest pump with the wave type gears and also the updated number of gears, 10 inner, 11 outer and 9.5mm thick the p/n is 1500-19036.

I am interested to see if the toga pump gears are thicker for volume.

[Bazda]

I agree, to some extent. The older style gears which are square cut have a cracking problem above 7.5k. That's why TRD made a stronger set, but even THOSE were prone to breaking. As for the one pictured having the having or not having square cut gears. I'm betting it will have square cut gears, or triangular shaped ones (4ac) as that style plate is for that style gear.






There were 5 different pumps, with 4 different gear designs that I came across that IIRC.

4AC had 2, triangular shaped gear, and a thinner 'wave' style. (2x different pumps/gears)

4AG Bigport 16V & Early GZE had square cut and is the one TRD made the reinforced set for. (1x different pumps, 1x gears)

4AG Smallport 16V, Late GZE & Silvertop 20V had a thicker 'wave' style. It was available on the smallport and Late GZE, but may have only been available towards the end of production. As I think one or two smallport owners have reported the older style gears on their motors. (1x pump, 1x gears)

4AG Blacktop 20V had only one style, the same thicker wave style as the smallport/lateGZE/silvertop BUT the housing incorporated the hydraulic timing belt tensioner. (1x pump, same gear as above)


Smallport (late production?), Late model GZE, Silvertop 20v & Blacktop 20v all share the same internal gear part number. The thicker gear means it's both higher volume AND stronger. Also because it's a sinusoidal wave without 'hard' corners it is much less prone to cracking/breaking.


Andrew

My early 1988 gze engine ae92 had the wave cut. I've never seen the square ones, possibly cos I dont deal with engines that old lol.

And its the wave ones that i've seen many destroy in NZ. I tried all the pumps, red top, silvertop and blacktop and I broke them all :S.

[dangdang]

What pump do you currently run Barry?

[assassin10000]

And its the wave ones that i've seen many destroy in NZ. I tried all the pumps, red top, silvertop and blacktop and I broke them all :S.

Wow, I've not come across many (any off the top of my head) of the 'wave' style broken. But then again, maybe the guys I can think of pushing past 9-9.5k have gone to dry sump setups.


Andrew

[Bazda]

http://www.billzilla.org/4agstock3.htm

According to that the big ports had the wave type gears.

I guess you hear diff stories every day lol.
I've shown my prob to a few experts and sintered steel gears are just not cutting it for me. I dont have any probs with cracking the gears.
So Toga say theirs are 4130 steel, i'll give that a go

I normally run a genuine silvertop pump modified with more clearance to try stop my issues.

[oldeskewltoy]

Even Bill can be wrong on occasion

http://www.billzilla.org/4agstock3.htm

According to that the big ports had the wave type gears.

I guess you hear diff stories every day lol.
I've shown my prob to a few experts and sintered steel gears are just not cutting it for me. I dont have any probs with cracking the gears.
So Toga say theirs are 4130 steel, i'll give that a go

I normally run a genuine silvertop pump modified with more clearance to try stop my issues.

if you are bearking oil pumps then it is time for a dry sump

[Bazda]

I know its prob time for a dry sump. But I dont want to go down that route.
I will try everything I can first before going down there. If the Toga pump fixes my issues I will let everyone know .

[DX20VT]

I too have broken 2 oil pumps. Both were blacktop ones.



First one I put down to a bad pump.
Was off a s/h engine that had run a bearing at some stage,
and i did quite frequently run on the rev limiter while warming tyres etc.

I try not to now and raised the rev limiter to 8500 so not too high.


Second one was a new genuine pump that broke.
About 6 months old, so 3 or 4 race weekends,
but put that down to the front pulley had come apart in the rubber damper.

Another new TGP pump and a new TGP front pulley.
No more problems.

[TERRA Operative]

Where can these Toga pumps be sourced?

[Bazda]

Horse power freaks.

[TERRA Operative]

I did some research on the Toga pumps, and the Toga 5EFE pump appears to be just a Toyota pump with the word 'Toyota' scrubbed off and 'HV' stamped on.
All other measurements were the same... Can anyone confirm any differences to the 4AGE pump?

[oldcorollas]

http://www.d-series.org/forums/produ...ps-greddy.html

not promising

they might just be buying them from the OEM maker of the OEM pumps (such is the way of OEM producers in japan)...

will be good to directly compare the sizes tho.
tighter clearances? well, since the inner gear turns the outer gear, they will be in contact+oil film, so clearances there make no difference, and could be worse with heat.
side clearances? mayeb you get some loss there but so little compared to the output of the pump as to make no tangible difference over OEM?

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...-Oil-pump-pics!)

there is "TAE" logo ont hat pump.. what do OEM toyota have?

is there actually any space (fore and aft) for the pump to be wider on the 4A? ie, space on the crank etc