The Tuning Talk Thread - Forced Induction EFI & JZ Tuning.

[JZA70 R]

Dunno about the wolf, but my powerfc allows you to compare any 2 maps together to see what the differences are. This was very useful to see what the first tuner had actually done... Even if you dont have a compare function you can still open the original map and manually compare it to the tuned map...

The only dip i can see is in the boost graph, and i cant read that dark blue writing so i dont know what sensor that one is.
It doesnt look like you are actually ever putting your foot flat to the floor? why is that? or is your tps reading wrong?

Glad your not changing any fuel settings without a wideband gauge.

I only play with boost control during tuning when im actually trying to tune boost control.

[OnAll-FOUR]

It doesnt look like you are actually ever putting your foot flat to the floor? why is that? or is your tps reading wrong?

No it is reading right, I just need to harden up and find some quiet roads to do this properly cheers

[JZA70 R]

Was just reading up on Ray Hall's Vipec V88 and stumbled across some interesting internet facts about Ray Hall/ViPec/Autronic/Motec...

(taken from redlinegti.com)

Even as an IT Professional, and self professed revhead, it still amazed me at the idle gossip that floats around the web.

Autronic Engine Management Systems continues as it was, albiet with one less distributor, but still with an innovative and developing productline, a slightly altered dealer support structure and a new web site to develop.
(Come on guys - get it going!!!)

Ray Hall, as I understand it, has never been "part" of Autronic, but does own TF Electronics.
I think Ray was a significant Autronic distributor for many years, but has been terminated and is no longer attached in any way to Autronic.
(That is unless you consider legal matters if my reading of the forums is correct.)
As another forum post put it - "some people, including Ray Hall, thought Ray Hall was Autronic" which was never the case, perceptions aren't everthing it seems.

As a distributor Ray developed the original Autronic.com website to primarily support his own customer base, although allowed selective access by others. As the author of a work retains copyright to that work, that's why the ViPEC website looks like the old Autronic website, it's the same website code with ViPEC content. Given that RH and TF Electronics are distibuting the rebadged LINK ECUs under the VIiPEC brand name, the website similarities are hardly surprising, but could be considered misleading as there is no connection between Autronic and ViPEC/Link.
(Wish RH luck, new products always bring new challenges)

TO bzchi:- it seems you have a good memory, there was a connection between Autronic and MoTec in the distant past, but it may not be what you think it was.

MoTech at one stage was a partnership between the Technical Developer/Engineer and a Marketing Manager.
When the partnership was dissolved, the Technical Developer/Engineer retained the Product Line and the Technology. That original MoTec product line was extensively redeveloped and extended, and relaunched under the Autronic banner and what we currently know as Autronic Engine Management Systems.
The Marketing Manager retained the MoTec name, which was subsequently applied to a different company and product currently known under the MoTec Brand. There is no connection between the Autronic (original MoTec) ECUs and the current, separately developed MoTec ECUs.

Happy Revving to all - Zapache

[OnAll-FOUR]

Thanks Gwil

Chris the PFC reads in milliseconds and maximum value on my 440cc injectors is like 18ms @ peak torque and boost and minimum is like 0.4 @ idle... so dunno wtf yours is reading.

I was hoping it was in MS because then i could run your map through my mapping spreadsheet and neaten it up.

See if you can convert it?...

Just been rereading this thread. Each time I read though I seem to pick up more and more.

I was wondering what does the mapping you have actually calculate? Is it something your willing to share around?

[knightrous]

What ECU & engine you have
MegaSquirt 2 v3.0 + MS2Extra firmware on a 4AGE Bigport in my AW11. Daily driven.

How you are tuning that ecu
Laptop with TunerStudio

What wideband o2 and knock detection you use and how its intergrated with your ecu
Using a LC1 WBO2 wired directly to the MS2 oxygen sensor port

Are you using a Dyno or street to tune, or both?
Street tuning, I can't afford $140+/hr for a Dyno.

Are you tuning from blank maps or using a 'base map' or someone elses hard work
Started with the generated maps that MS2 produces from the required fuel calcs.

Your opinion on withholding tuning tips or secrets or even your own data and maps from persons and for what reasons?
I don't believe in holding secrets and crap, I'd rather share my data and have someone show me where I can improve or learn something new themselves.

What modifications you have done to your engine and how they effect your existing tune, or how they are have increased/decreased difficulty to perform further tuning
Complete stock 4AGE, daily driven.

Your experience from tuning timing.
I've done no tuning on the timing side, I'm a newbie at tuning and I'm just sticking with the stock suggested timing from the MS2. I'll tune the ignition more when I'm confident with the fuel map.

Your experience from tuning fuel.
A newbie at tuning, but so far it has been fairly straight forward. Just adjust the cells till the AFR's reach the targets.

Your experience from tuning around knock.
I don't have a knock sensor installed, but it's on the cards.

How intimate you are with your ecu, have you learnt every feature and what it does?
I know it has a lot of features, but I won't use a bunch of them, so I don't know how exactly to set them up.

Over all, I like the MegaSquirt, it's an easy system to work with and it's got a lot of features for the price. It requires you to have some real knowledge about your car though, which is why it usually causes a lot of people to have troubles with them.

[JZA70 R]

Just been rereading this thread. Each time I read though I seem to pick up more and more.

I was wondering what does the mapping you have actually calculate? Is it something your willing to share around?

hehe im already sharing everything i have, in the first post. look for ultimate.xls in the following share.... link here
its basically an excel spreadsheet that converts milliseconds of injector time into a visual representation graph that is then editable by clicking and dragging which then changes the original fields. i think its genious really. definitely my secret weapon.

[JP]

Quick question for those that have ECU's where you can adjust the injector timing/phase. What process do you use to determine the optimal injection angle?

I've only just started testing with the injector timing and for low load I'm using the method of holding a steady load site, then adjusting the injector timing table until you get the richest AFR (which is supposedly injecting when port velocity is highest...). I've been told that at higher rpm the injector timing doesn't matter as much as the with higher boost/load the fuel atomises better. Have also read that you want to be completing injection before the inlet valve opens so the fuel hits the back of the hot valve to help it atomise better.

I'm currently running 360deg BTDC timing down low transitioning to 400ish higher up in the map. The original base map had a flat injector timing of 400deg btdc, but changing the injector timing around idle to 360 richened up the AFR by .3 with no change of injector pulsewidth. This is using an "end of injection" setting as it's a piston engine.

The previous injector phasing map for my car from a tuner in Wollongong who lock their maps so customers dont know what has been done was setup like this:


FWIW, my engine starts and idles a hell of a lot better using 360deg rather than 245...

[jeffro ra28]

I believe most stock EFI engines have %90 of the fuel arrive at the back of the valve before it opens. However not sure if this is any good for a performance engine.

BTW, where can you buy new crimp terminals for engine loom plugs? Toyota do not supply them with the new plugs

[MWP]

I believe most stock EFI engines have %90 of the fuel arrive at the back of the valve before it opens. However not sure if this is any good for a performance engine.

Its not. Its good for fuel economy & emissions, but not performance.
IIRC, you want droplets (very small of course, a mist) entering the combustion chamber.

[JZA70 R]

so you want the injector firing while the valve is open/opening? rather than firing onto the back of the valve when its closed?

slightly offtopic, found a cool vid on youtube of various injector spray patterns. pretty cool i must say...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-MjDsXgQro

[1JZ-Rolla]

I've only just started testing with the injector timing and for low load I'm using the method of holding a steady load site, then adjusting the injector timing table until you get the richest AFR (which is supposedly injecting when port velocity is highest...). I've been told that at higher rpm the injector timing doesn't matter as much as the with higher boost/load the fuel atomises better.

That's pretty much the procedure that they would teach you at an ECU tuning course to determine injection timing at idle for example.

Injection timing at higher RPM may not be as critical with higher port velocities and things generally happening faster (and almost entirely pointless if you are near max duty cycle of course, where the injector will practically be open for the entire cycle), but the rule of thumb is to increase injection end angle by 5-10 degrees for every 500rpm. Make sure you have a steady progression in the values in the map.

Cheers
Phil

[JP]

For the crimp terminals, you can get them in normal size orders from http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/index.php/cPath/109?

They have the Tyco/AMP, Sumitomo and Yazaki stuff which are used in toyota looms.

[VA61DETT]

What ECU & engine you have.
Microtech LT10S with Ignition module

How you are tuning that ecu
Laptop

What wideband o2 and knock detection you use and how its integrated with your ecu
Using a LC-1 WBO2, currently using LC1 software side by side, as Microtech will not read accurately (always 1 AFR to lean) No knock sensing.

Are you using a Dyno or street to tune, or both?
Limited access to a friend’s old Dyno & some street tuning

Are you tuning from blank maps or using a 'base map' or someone elses hard work
Started with MT ‘VG30’ base map.

Your opinion on withholding tuning tips or secrets or even your own data and maps from persons and for what reasons?
If you got it, share it, makes the world a smarter place

What modifications you have done to your engine and how they effect your existing tune, or how they are have increased/decreased difficulty to perform further tuning
Complete custom inlet /cooler, plenum, 85mm TB, twin 2.5 to 3” single straight exhaust, 600cc injectors. Made life difficult to tune / drive the low end, finicky as hell between rich / lean.

Your experience from tuning timing.
Total noob, have an idea, but still working the fuel systems.

Your experience from tuning fuel.
Have an idea of what to & not to do, just need to get more aggressive.
Keep breaking driveline bits before can tune any decent power :|

Your experience from tuning around knock.
I don't have a knock sensor installed, but haven never encountered audible knock on the VG, Have briefly played with one on a mates 3TGTE, made some interesting ‘recordings’ using a laptop and mic input to knock sensor, could isolate the knock frequency with audio processing software.

How intimate you are with your ecu, have you learnt every feature and what it does?
Got a fair handle on most the MT functions, fairly simple & straight forward.. this I like.

-JZA70_R
Top work on the thread and info provided, I am just finally getting my head round it.
Have to say, a decent WB sensor is the best tuning investment ever!

Hope to catch ya for a chat @ motorvation this weekend.
-A

[RyleyMA61]

keen to see what people are doing with transient throttle enrichment aka throttle pumps etc

i have my engine free revving responsively, but if i open the throttle quickly to say 3% and hold it, i get a lean spike up to 19:1 as revs climb before the AFRs settle down. is nothing to do with myy base fuel maps.

also similar issue when cruising around town- change gears, very light throttle, lean spike before settling down to 14:1.

Any help?

[MWP]

Does that lean spike cause the engine to hesitate though?