2jz-ge ecu/loom question...

[misk]

m doing a 2jzge-t conversion into an VH commodore using straight LPG in a carby style GRA setup.

after reading through the wiring diagrams for the 2jz-ge engine, ive realized ill be using sweet fuck all of the loom, and also 99% of the features of the ecu - due to running straight LPG carby style in a non supra car.

will the ECU freak out without most of the shit connected (injectors, alot of the sensors etc)?
i'll really only be using the ignition shit...

it might be easier to just run an MSD true carby style ignition system with timing retard and fuck off the ECU all together...

any thoughts?
cheers

[wilbo666]

You should still hook up all the sensors to the ECU, you say you are planning to not hook up "a lot of sensors"...what sensors?

If you want the ECU to control the ignition correctly it will need its sensors hooked up!


The ECU does not check the injectors per say, it won't know if they are missing (There is no check engine code for say, low or high injector current...).

At a guess the ECU will likely throw the oxygen sensor check engine light due to the fact that it won't be able to run in closed loop (Look up closed loop if you don't know what it is ).

Cheers
Wilbo

[misk]

well i was planning to run as few sensors as possible, lets put it that way lol
i've just noticed the the ECU seems to be pretty involved in alot of processes, and really, for the ECU to control ignition, it should only need the trigger from the distributor i thought?

[wilbo666]

and really, for the ECU to control ignition, it should only need the trigger from the distributor i thought?

Umm, your ignition curve should be based on load right...

How is the engine ECU going to know about load if you take away the sensors it uses to determine load?!

How will the engine ECU knock retard if you remove the knock sensors...

etc

etc

I'm not sure if you are going about this the right way...



Cheers
Wilbo

[misk]

all a learning curve for me mate, hence why im asking these questions...
so all help is appreciated.
fact of the matter is, ive never seen a 2jz running straight gas, so got alot of questions and un known info.

[Norbie]

Wilbo is right, you want to hook up ALL sensors if you want it to run properly. It will be exactly the same as wiring up a regular 2JZ except for the injectors.

[gianttomato]

But the map will be all levels of fucked up for LPG turbo anyway. Stand alone IGN only ECU will reap best results.

[misk]

cool, as i said, all a learning curve atm, so just gathering info
cheers for the help

[andrew_mx83]

standalone ignition ftw

[misk]

me again lol

got some nice wiring digrams to read through.

anyone have a good understanding of how the distrubitor system on the 2jzge works?

does the distibutor tell the ECU the position of the engine, then the ECU tells the igniter when to send a signal to the coil? or vice versa?


im basically trying to figure out which wire on the distributor is the trigger wire so i can run a programmable igniton unit from it


edit - aslo is the distributor magnetic pickup?

[andrew_mx83]

how many wire on the dizzy?

[misk]

4 wires

found some more info.
apparently there is a few different pickups in the dizzy, but none that give the right trigger.

edit - there is g1 and G2 which gives near TDC for #1 and # 6 cyl and NE which delivers 24 triggers for RPM.

have a read through this http://autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf (it explains thw rokings of the distributor more than anything) , its a bit hectic lol but it matches the 2jzge wirig digrams i was reading earlier which meantioned g1, g2 etc.
they are the pickups inside the dizzy that are used by the ECU as reference for certain things.
this was the best info ive found so far

"""
This is all i can find at the moment - "..... I modded an NA dissy to run with my Wolf Standalone. I left it with 6 teeth and used a single Toyota trigger." Not sure about the hall sensor bit.

If you don't need the Ne signal, you could do the same. This might effect your tacho though. """

[andrew_mx83]

awesome link...thanks. i will have a proper read thru it over the weekend.

what ignition system are you trying to run?
i am having the same issues trying to drive the jaycar programmable ignition.

im guessing ur dizzy will be similar to the 7m one which also has 4 wires. there are 3 reluctor pickups inside, a 24 tooth and 2 single tooth pickups.

atm im looking at 2 options
a) grind off 2 in 3 teeth on the reluctor wheel.would probably have to grind the remaining ones down to a point to get a half decent signal but i dont think it will be very clean even then.
b) put a hall effect sensor in the dizzy out of another 6 cyl distributor. hall effect is a much cleaner signal and would hopefully give better results as it will be a bit of work.

[misk]

yeah i was looking at any form of trigger signal from the dizzy so i can run the jaycar unit with a CDI. and yes are both in the same situation regarding the sensors in the dizzy.

apparently the 6 teeth on the reluctor wheel works, but i also looked in to the hall effect.

but unless im confused (which i think i am lol), the hall effect will give a single trigger for reference when cranking over, and then the single trigger per revolution, could the G1 trigger not be used for the same?
or am i missing somehting in between


i just had someone suggest i use this unit http://www.msdignition.com/Products/..._Ignition.aspx

but that requires a custom crank trigger for magnetic pickups to be used, so doesnt really get around the trigger side of things

[andrew_mx83]

hall requires 3 wires so i dont c how u could use the reluctor setup that is there.

-ve
+5v
signal

maybe u could use the reluctor wheel to trigger the hall sensor.
i havent looked yet if hall sensors need 1 or 6 points. i think its still 6 but im not sure.


wat is the msd box worth? it doesnt seem to do a whole lot more than the jaycar one which is damn good value and as u say still has the trigger problem

[misk]

the msd was $650usd, so a bit pricey for not much more really.

and i thought hall was only one sensor? lol

never thought this would be so hard to do.

how do you have yours firing at all using the jaycar unit?

[andrew_mx83]

nope. it is installed and the new loom in place but the original loom is still there and the ecu is running things. its giving me the shits.

when we tried to fire it up the hand controller showed 0rpm while cranking so i can only assume it is not getting a trigger signal. it should show at least 2-300 rpm you would think.

if hall is only 1 then it might be as simple as mounting the pickup in the dizzy and gutting the reluctor pickups but leaving the wheels.

the other option is to modify a 5me dizzy to fit, it has a single 6 point reluctor trigger with only 2 wires (perfect). but the shaft is way too long as it originally goes into the block. a bit of machining could make it work tho.


i never thought it would be this hard either! grrrr!

[misk]

theres some info on pickups here.
hall effect is one sensor with a wheel that consists of evenly spaced windows, which act as the actual trigger, blocking the magnetic signal.

so not sure if that would be as easy as we think to fit.

im off home now, so will look into this further later.
cheers for the help man, your the only other person needing the same info as me atm lol

[andrew_mx83]

was having a chat to the old man yesterday and we came up with an idea to minimise the butchering of the dizzy and should also keep the cost down

we were originally planning to gut the original dizzy of all the pickups on the body and the 3 wheels on the shaft then graft the wheel from (for example) any ford 6 cyl hall effect dizzy and probably have to use that rotor button as well.

in my dizzy the rotor button bolts onto that 24tooth wheel. we are thinking about machining up a thin plate, with the required 6 evenly spaced windows and bolting that between the rotor button and wheel. would probably need to remove some of the plastic shrouding on the rotor button to make this work.
then mount the ford hall pickup in the body of the original dizzy, somewhere between the original reluctors and run the wires out the back.

this will mean that the engine will still run on the ecu AND generate a hall signal. this will make setting up the rest of the ignition box a lot easier as i am no longer confident it will be an easy plug and play and i need to keep the car on the road. in theory the car could run on the ecu with the ignition box powered up and if the rpm on the hand controller matches the tacho then were in business!

[misk]

hmm well funny you suggest that, i have a few ford dizzys sitting in the garage, ill suss it out a bit this afternoon