Urgent Help Required - 4age 16v smallport dizzy alignment and car not starting

[trd_st184]

Hi All,
I just converted my AE92 to EFI and installed a 4age 16v small port in it and unfortunately won't start. I can crank the starter and the motor turns over nicely but its not actually starting yet.

I can hear the fuel pump turning on and can confirm that there is spark (earthed the spark plugs to see it firing). I can confirm there is fuel (can smell it on the plugs)

I have a good feeling its due to Timing. I had installed a Dizzy from my other 4age motor since the motor I used in the car didn't come with one. I aligned the 2 dimples on the dizzy with the motor on TDC (with the marker from the crank), then slid the dizzy in but I had no markers to go off (just tried to align the dizzy bolts around the middle of adjustment) but there is lots of room for error this way and there must be a better way to align it. I thought this could be one cause of it not starting.

Also wondering if anyone can advise why the earth wire on the drivers side (from chassis to motor) could be getting so hot. We were cranking for a good 10 seconds or so and could see the wire (black and yellow) smoking. I have all the earth wires connected, but presumed it could be that the starter was running so long and straining the wires.

Any suggestions to help me would be great thank you

[trd_st184]

I picked up some notes from the process of trying to start it yesterday and noticed a few things

- Wire getting hot as I may have left a bolt somewhere in the dash off which the wire passes current though.

- Battery low causing not enough energy to start the car

- Accelerator Cable wasn't connected so we might not have had enough air coming in. We had also removed the stop screw for the throttle body so these 2 factors may have not worked so well together.

- Dizzy Timing could have well been out causing the spark to not fire at the right time.

I was going to do the timing belt/water pump tonight since the water pump is leaking from the weep hole.

[jondee86]

I picked up some notes from the process of trying to start it yesterday and noticed a few things

- Wire getting hot as I may have left a bolt somewhere in the dash off which the wire passes current though.

Heavy current should not come from the dash... starter solenoid current only. There should be at least one fat black ground strap attached from close to the starter to the chassis. Starter current comes direct from the battery thru a fat wire <== technical term that

- Battery low causing not enough energy to start the car

If the battery can crank the engine at anything like normal speed, it should have enough juice to start the car.

- Accelerator Cable wasn't connected so we might not have had enough air coming in. We had also removed the stop screw for the throttle body so these 2 factors may have not worked so well together.

Wedge the throttle butterfly open just a fraction... doesn't need much... about as much gap as you would get with a matchstick under the blade is plenty. Engine definitely needs air to start.

- Dizzy Timing could have well been out causing the spark to not fire at the right time.

Engine should still run if the dizzy is out a tooth either way. Are you using a smallport ECU and a smallport dizzy ?

Cheers... jondee86

[trd_st184]

Thanks for the help much appreciated

The main fat earth wire goes from the negative terminal, to the body, then to the gearbox using a bolt to hold it down. I was thinking since the fuse box doesn't have the earth connection (possibly) it might be trying too hard to draw the current it needs all from the battery strap. It is a bit worrying the wire is starting to get so hot its smoking.

The throttle butterfly if i'm not mistaken was completely shut closed with the position of the idle stop screw. I couldn't even fit a piece of paper through it lol

Good question regarding the dizzy timing. I have a feeling it may have been out more than a tooth, the second time we put it in I don't think we aligned the 2 dimples (and I didn't hold the rotor as I put it in).

[dnegative]

If the main earth is smoking then I would be double checking its connection on the battery and on the gearbox/engine.
4A's will still half fire and run if your a tooth or 180deg out, they wont run but it will half catch etc


If its the wrong dizzy it will never run (VAST vs ESA) but I dont think its possible to hot swap due to different plugs.
If its got spark and fuel then your close.

[trd_st184]

If the main earth is smoking then I would be double checking its connection on the battery and on the gearbox/engine.
4A's will still half fire and run if your a tooth or 180deg out, they wont run but it will half catch etc


If its the wrong dizzy it will never run (VAST vs ESA) but I dont think its possible to hot swap due to different plugs.
If its got spark and fuel then your close.

Sorry I think I might have worded it bad. The earth on the drivers side that goes from the chassis to the engine (attaches near the oil cap on the head I believe) is the one thats smoking.

Which makes me think the main earth that goes from the battery to chassis and gearbox may not be mounted correctly or might not have a suitable finish where the bolt goes through a thread.

I can confirm that the dizzy I had came from a smallport, and I am using the whole loom from the motor the dizzy originally came from.

At the moment I can't hear any firing (especially with just the exhaust manifold coming out of the motor) lol

[dnegative]

Your main earth is fucked if its trying to start through that little one on the head

[trd_st184]

Your main earth is fucked if its trying to start through that little one on the head

Could there be a chance that could be happening? Especially if its burning up like that. I have used the original chassis/gearbox holes but maybe on the off chance something isn't contacting properly could that cause the wire?

Mind you we were cranking the motor for about 10-15 seconds at a time

[The Witzl]

Your main earth is fucked if its trying to start through that little one on the head

This guy is correct.
Sounds like the big fat earth wire from the chassis to the gearbox on the passenger side is fucked - check all connections for corrosion, loose bolt, etc. Clean them up and re-tighten them.
That smaller earth wire from the head to the chassis on the driver's side is more there for the EFI electrical earthing, making sure all the injectors, ECU, and sensors have a suitable earth.

This could well be contributing to your overall starting issues. I would also be inclined to check that your ECU hasnt fried as it sounds like ALL the power for the starter motor was going through that relatively thin earth, and it pays to double check things anyway.

As for lining up the dissy - seriously its such a piece of piss on the smallport...... but if you arent getting ANY engine firing, then i would start by looking at the cam timing as well.
Pull the timing cover off and line everything back up - crank pulley, timing belt, cams, and then the dissy.
Line up the dot on the dissy gear with the mark on the dissy housing's shaft, and insert into the head.

Now fire away!!

[trd_st184]

Thanks Witzl for your reply.

I cleaned up all earth points (including the bolt that holds them on with a wire brush) and when the car starts now the wires don't heat up anymore. I realigned the dizzy again and the car is starting to pop more now which is a great sign but my battery is still not fully charged so I can't really get much cranking.

I will try again tomorrow night, heres hoping it actually starts up haha.

[dnegative]

Charge the battery, pull and clean the plugs and try again.
Getting the dizzy in perfectly can take a few goes, just make sure the dot lines up on the camshaft under the oil cap and that you dont have to twist it much to get it in.
If you do it right the dizzy pretty much slides in without anything twisting or needing to be rotated.

[BrianGT]

I'm not familiar with the 4AGE motor so this is just a thought..........

Although you lined up the crank pulley at top dead centre you may have the engine firing on number 4 cylinder so that you are 180 degrees out with the distributor.
Is this possible? I know I've done it on my own 2TG before now.............(

[trd_st184]

Thanks for the suggestions. I would have thought that if the motor is TDC on the crank, then the cam should be on the correct position also? Its quite new to me from this side of things doh lol

[The Witzl]

Thanks for the suggestions. I would have thought that if the motor is TDC on the crank, then the cam should be on the correct position also? Its quite new to me from this side of things doh lol

Yes, so long as the timing belt is correctly aligned!!!
You can never assume it is, so pull off the timing covers and check.

[dnegative]

There is a dot on the inlet cam you can see when the oil filler cap is removed, if you can see it your good to go.