TA22 T-series diff LSD upgrade

[J-M kujala]

there is also another thread, Maybe Moderator move this to that or otherway or Forum members just read this topic also... some info more to this topic also.
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/sho...t=#post1331437

if you just install LSD..

-Measure Backlash before disassembling
-Change ring gear to another LSD unit
-Press Bearings in
-install Diff
-Adjust backlash to the same than it was...(also small preload to the bearings) tooth contact no needed to check.. when backlash is same than before, then contact is same than Before.

with taking out pinion and change bearings or pull it out... Full set of work had to be done... if use old ringpinions, then can measure pinion height and no needed to play many times pinion out and in.. after checking contact in gears are wrong..

ME installing TRD LSD unit to one mate DIFF, he take pictures when i work... With water can i check preload

Pics: inside and outside TRD LSD...
http://kuvablogi.com/blog/3257/38/



that Preload... its a Basic tightnes, how tight it is without engine braking or accelerating.... usually to the street.. no needed to shim tighter, to Hard Drifting, Maybe.. After 100Nm Preload may come problem with half shafts by time... they may snap if car rear is heavy or sticky tires... (usually in tight slow cornering) also TRD had no Springs middle of the LSD... springs are plate type and near diff splines... see those pics..

[J-M kujala]

TRD is direct fit like KAAZ? Meaning the axles don't need shortening? I have read those threads before and was under the impression TRD LSD units needed the TA22 axles shortened, but KAAZ/Cusco etc didn't need the axles shortened.

YEAP Direct fit 100000% Sure ! only OEM LSD need trimming of Half shafts.

[jb_22]

Kujala those pics are worth eleventy billion words!! Using a measured amount of fluid is a clever way to check pinion preload too, so gonna do that! Thanks so much +rep.

BTW what you have said with checking the backlash before disassembly & setting it as before may not apply to mine. I have a feeling the diff had poor backlash when I took it out - when sitting at constant speed where the diff is under slight accel & slight decel it would clunk a little. I'll check the backlash beforehand just out of curiosity though.

With measuring the pinion height, do you use a straight edge over the bearing carriers & measure the depth with vernier callipers? I will check the crown & pinion mesh pattern with tooth marking paste before taking it apart. If that is okay then I'll use the same pinion shim as before & check the pinion height is the same with new bearings. When it's all assembled I will check the tooth pattern one more to be 100% confident.

Thanks for confirming the TRD LSD centres do not need the axles shortening, saves me pulling the axles out before the weekend to get them cut down However I will dummy fit the axles to the centre and measure the width and compare it to the diff housing width to double check.

I will also try and source some of that Castrol 75W-140 LSD oil you mentioned on the other thread. The higher temperature grade will be handy in the 35+ degree climate here.

SO far my plan of attack once LSD arrives:
1. Pull down the TRD LSD unit to check everything is okay and no weird shim materials in there. Clean and put back together.
2. Check crown and pinion mesh pattern with tooth marking paste.
3. Mark bearing caps, ring nuts etc so it all goes back the same.
4. Pull apart, press out bearings & clean everything.
5. Install crown & new bearings onto LSD centre
6. Install new bearings & pinion shaft into housing & set preload using awesome water in a bottle trick
7. Install ring nuts into diff carrier & install LSD centre.
8. Set carrier bearing preload.
9. Set backlash on crown wheel with dial indicator & check the crown & pinion mesh.
10. Torque everything up to specs. Guessing the specs are the same between open and LSD diffs??
11. Remove my old centre that sounds like angle grinders having a threesome in a bucket of bolts
11. Check axles do not need shortening.
12. Install, fill with 75W-140 Castrol LSD oil.
13. Go for a blocky to warm her up & check for any weird noises etc.
14. Skids!

Should only take me a day in the garage if I'm lucky

Thanks for all the help guys, esp the pics Kujala. If mods wanna merge this thread into the other LSD into T-series diff thread feel free to do so.

Cheers, Jess

[J-M kujala]

This a thread where you can write a whole book how to do it... so much opinions and ways to do it. ecspecialty with used parts, but there is couple of my personal opinion...

With TRD Diff, same torgue specs than Standard.. using small heat to ring gear, it is lot of easyer to fit in, if it`s tight.. put it to a water can and boil it... to much heat with flame destroy hardened surface.

most important thing is measure backlash before disassembling, if bearings do not have extra play, they have not totally wear out and backlash can measure, then if there is more than 2-3 times than maximum backlash in 6.7" diff then usually those ring gears are scrap metal. like 0.25mm is ok, but 0.5mm -> start to be at the end of the life. i never use them.. anymore... losted time and money..

i have seen at hard way that using used ring pinions and assembling them a little tighter backlash, they start to whine in many times. like in dissassemling diff, you found 0.25mm backlash. then i have always put it back to there, if installing that to a STD backlash what Toyota books says (0.13-0.18) they usually start to whine , or at least after sometime driving, they have wear to a pair in one position and moving them to another position is not good thing.. measure backlash at tightest place, they usually "live" a little bit... and do not go under minimum was before / 0.13mm at any places.

height of pinion. measured with liner to somewhere where is easy to get line and near..... you can put pinion shims between bearings and case also, not like book says between pinion and bearing, a lot easyer between case. Preload... do not put them to highest KG what books says, use smallest one...


same basic rules to all Ring pinion style diffs.. i do not anymore measure preload by Water / can trick, before preload tool i use that, usually i test only by hands and no burned bearings anymore after learning those my "opinions" before in this post.

quite hard to write these with by bad English

[J-M kujala]

Kujala those pics are worth eleventy billion words!! Using a measured amount of fluid is a clever way to check pinion preload too, so gonna do that! Thanks so much +rep.

BTW what you have said with checking the backlash before disassembly & setting it as before may not apply to mine. I have a feeling the diff had poor backlash when I took it out - when sitting at constant speed where the diff is under slight accel & slight decel it would clunk a little.

Thanks if those help you, or someone else..

Poor "Backlash" in manycases come from Diff, not from Ringpinions. you may had bad centre, also TRD ones Clunk heavier than good oem LSD:s and oem open diffs... and usually in sloww speed when come acc and engine break,,, but do not care at that sound... its only reason why that type LSD are not installed to OEM applications, only uppgrade parts..

[jb_22]

Hey guys, started pulling the centre down today.

The tooth contact pattern looks good to me: (but I have never done this before either )


And I've measured the backlash:


Measured it at three different points and got 0.23mm, 0.17mm & 0.18mm so that looks good too

Just waiting for my LSD centre to arrive from Japland now!

[convertableTA23]

You have used a little too much bearing blue to really see the contact patern. The bearing blue is wiped off the teeth where the contact is under load. I usually wrap a rag around the pinion and hold it tight to put a bit of load on it while I spin the carrier. Backlash setting looks good though. I would guess the contact it right though and just use the same pinion height to reassemble the centre.

[J-M kujala]

Youre... Tool what you use to measure is not
Just straight angle to the gear, so it show a little bigger numbers, but use same mounting style to that tool and re asseble new to same backlash. Backlash sounds like that ring pinion kit do not have much wear.. Quite good condition.

I dont remeber that tool name just now in English.. XD

[jb_22]

Yeah I was a little unsure of how to use the bearing blue at first, I just smeared it over the crown wheel with my finger and only realised how much I actually put in there when I spun the carrier. I could still make out where the contact was in good light (the camera flash doesn't do it any justice).

Anyone got any flash tips to remove the pinion bearing from the shaft? My gear pullers are too fat to fit between the bearing and pinion gear. Thinking about grinding the ends down, but I'm a bit worried about the strength after I do that.

edit; just read your post Kujala, it was really hard to get the dial indicator in the right place and not have the tooth above interfere. Although the indicator isn't tangential to the crown, it is really close to perpendicular on the tooth. Either way, with that little bit of angle, it would only make 0.02-0.03mm difference to the measurements. Yep definitey going to measure backlash the same way when reassembling so it will be the same as before.

[J-M kujala]

Pinion bearing are maybe tight as hell to the pinion, i have use angle grinder to grind that circle to open and then its easy to pull out,

New one is tight also, i have heat pinion gear end bearing up to 150 celsius and drop in. Press can be used also.

Yeap i got same opinion, maybe 2-3 hundreds of mm, so backlash is like new one got :-) i have buy a little different style Dial indicator ? You see at my pics what i have post earlier. Its old bot really good to this job.

[convertableTA23]

Use a press and the standard bearing tool for pressing bearings off. I hve never needed to apply heat to the pinion to remove or fit bearings. Applying flame dirrectly to any heat treated or case hardened object isn't a good idea. The only thing you should ever have to heat will be the crownwheel, place it into a pot of water on a stove in the lunch room at work. Almost every toyota crownwheel i have done has been able to be put on with just a rubber mallet. Never use the bolts to seat the crownwheel, it can damage the threads on both the crownwheel and the bolts. Remember when pressing the pinion out to use a piece of brass on the end of the press to stop damage to the threads on the pinion.

[jb_22]

Yeah I saw your pics, it has a little needle that twists at the end, mine is just a straight shaft. I tried to find one like your's, but it was easier to get this one. It works well enough, plus I can use it to measure my cam lobes as well.

Hmm.. The pinion just fell out of the diff housing when I undid the spike nut, is it not supposed to do that?

Does the orientation of the crown wheel matter when installing it onto the LSD centre?'

Also, my diff has the crown wheel bolt lock tabs x4. If I reuse these I don't have to use loctite?

[J-M kujala]

Cannot use those lock plates, they do not fit to TRD use locktite.

Electric kitchen oven can use heat those parts, not gas one. I got electric.

Bearing press or heat, and ringgear can heat in waterpot or electric oven. I usually use kitchen oven so bearing got heat after ringgear is taken off. Many ways to do the job.

I do not have good tools to press out pinion bearing at gear end, so i use angle grinder to cut it and then take it away.

I hope there is not coming any mis understandings because my lanuage.

[J-M kujala]

Yes it drops off when nut is removed, Orientation.. No matter but i put screws to the place and turn up side down, that ring gear cool downs fast when its in place so bolt holes good to have in correct position.

[jb_22]

I might grind the pinion bearing, that was the only way to get the axle bearings off... cut it on opposite sides, then whack with a big chisel. sometimes it splits the bearing race, otherwise it makes it loose enough to come off.

Has anyone put the LSD in the freezer as well as heat the ring gear? I did this when doing the front wheel bearings - put the races in the freezer for a couple hours & heated the hub in the oven. It gave a little more time before everything became tight.

Can't wait til she's back on the road, still another week away