TA22 T-series diff LSD upgrade

[jb_22]

Hi guys,

My T-series diff clapped out over the weekend & I have a spare centre I plan to build into a limited slip unit using an AE86 Zenki TRD 2-way LSD. Now I know this upgrade has been done a few times & the stock TA22 axles need shortening by 5mm.

I have a Brooklands TA22/Carina OWM with a differential servicing section. It is very detailed & I can follow the steps easily enough, but it is full of special tools to set things like the drive pinion adjusting shim, removing the pinion shaft oil seal, removing the case bearing races, setting bearing preload & setting the backlash.

Wondering if anybody has attempted this sort of thing in the garage with what sort of tools/tricks you need (or don't need) & with what degree of success. At the moment it's looking like the outlay for all the special tools I need is gonna be that much I may as well just take it to a diff mob in town & save myself stinking like diff oil.

Cheers, Jess

[ToyTA22]

Hi Jess
I rebuild all my own diffs at home. Only tools I use are a tension wrench, dial indicator and a 12mm dia brass punch to remove bearings, a gear/bearing puller to remove centre housing bearings.
Shimming pinion isn't difficult long as you have tooth marking paste or similar.
if your using same gears in same housing shouldn't need to worry to much about shim size, still need to check tooth pattern though. Hardest part is setting pinion preload, may need to put crush tube on peice of pipe and hammer around tube to stretch tube out. I work on feel when setting preload, just feel light pressure when turning pinion flange but won't spin freely.
Once pinion is set just need to set backlash, where I use dial indicator, can be done by feel though then carrier bearing preload.

I rebuilt my last diff April 2011 including replacing clutch packs with thicker plates and use as road car and dirt track car with no noises or problems, using standard TA22 4.1 ratio.

If you have any trouble reply through thread and either I or someone else should reply to help you through.

Regards
Tony

[jb_22]

Thanks a lot for the info Tony, just a couple questions: The OWM I have has steps using a "pinion gauge set" which looks to be a pinion shaft without the gear & a "master gauge" which bolts in place of the diff case. The pinion bearings are assembled onto the pinion gauge set and it is used to set pinion preload. Then, the master gauge & pinion gauge set are used to select the correct pinion gear shim. What you're saying is to instead use the tooth marking paste on the pinion & crown to check the mesh of the pinion gear onto the crown. If the tooth contact pattern is not in the centre of the crown tooth, then the pinion shim needs adjusting?

bashing the pinion spacer around a tube is a pretty good idea to get it that little bit longer. I know the pinion preload on the diff isn't good because I can turn the pinion flange pretty easily & the diff made a bit of a knocking noise at constant speed (slight accel to slight decel etc) before I took it out.

Looking more tempting now I only have to buy a dial indicator and gear puller.

How has everybody done with finding bearings and oil seal? I was gonna drop into Allied bearings & see how I go. I had trouble finding new axles bearings so hopefully the diff bearings aren't a huge hassle with me being up in Cairns.

[ToyTA22]

rWhat you said in relation to using tooth marking paste is correct. Besides i tried to buy or borrow pinion gauge set and not available.

The knocking noise probably is excess backlash due to worn bearings.
If you have access to a press it makes it lot easier to remove/ replace bearings on centre and pinion.

Most major bearing centres will get them for you. If you can take old bearings in it makes a lot easier.

My Celica is about 30min drive from where i live. I'll see if I can find bearing numbers for you, out of memory I kept boxes for reference when I build my 4.3 lsd diff. but may not be till end of week.

[ToyTA22]

rWhat you said in relation to using tooth marking paste is correct. Besides i tried to buy or borrow pinion gauge set and not available.

The knocking noise probably is excess backlash due to worn bearings.
If you have access to a press it makes it lot easier to remove/ replace bearings on centre and pinion.

Most major bearing centres will get them for you. If you can take old bearings in it makes a lot easier.

My Celica is about 30min drive from where i live. I'll see if I can find bearing numbers for you, out of memory I kept boxes for reference when I build my 4.3 lsd diff. but may not be till end of week.

I just found the link i used info from ae86 community http://www.aeu86.org/index/axle-amp-...762/post=78515

[jb_22]

Maybe I could get the Engineering mob who are shortening my axles to press out/in the bearings for me to save some sweat. The bearing numbers would be super handy, but I'm going to be pulling it down soon enough so will be able to get the numbers off the races anyhoo for when I go into the bearing shop.

How do you go about setting backlash by feel? The backlash I take it as the freeplay between the pinion and crown wheel teeth, which is adjusted by turning the ring nuts (holey things) in and out on the opposite sides of the carrier to maintain bearing preload. Setting it by hand do you turn the pinion flange back and forth and feel for freeplay between forward/backward movement of the crown wheel?

Thanks heaps for the advice! Saving me rubbing a bunch of worry stones

[jb_22]

Handy link there! Think I may have stumbled upon it yonks ago and forgot about it. Seeing as I ordered one of those $350 TRD LSD centres from Japan on eBay, is it easy enough to check its condition without pulling it apart? i.e. use an axle to spin the spider gears & check for clutch operation.

[J-M kujala]

Hi guys,

My T-series diff clapped out over the weekend & I have a spare centre I plan to build into a limited slip unit using an AE86 Zenki TRD 2-way LSD. Now I know this upgrade has been done a few times & the stock TA22 axles need shortening by 5mm.


Cheers, Jess

use search also, there is another Topic also at 6.6+" / 6.7" D/T series Diffs and LSD units.. BUT Aftermarket LSD units no needed axle trimming, only stock type. TRD is Direct Fit, like KAAZ, have install bought + some other aftermarket units also. to my cars TRS and KAAZ and KAAZ is still in my Carina TA12, those have same axle than TA22 have.

[J-M kujala]

is it easy enough to check its condition without pulling it apart? i.e. use an axle to spin the spider gears & check for clutch operation.

YEAP but i still recommend to take them to pieces, it is not big work... i have found interrested beer can, oilcan pieces ETC inside them !! Japanese have use some really interested shim material... and many times in a wrong place, between clutch discs !! not behind last clutch plate... oilcan aluminium go pieces in there... and some TRD LSD:s have been trimmed at another side only ! wierd.. i have maintenance something 10+ of them (TRD) what have been shipped from Japan and i have installed them. SO i Recommend to pull them to pieces and see condition.. sometimes those oil / can aluminiums cant feel and rattlecan metal have been in a wrong place...

otherwise they have been in excellent condition (some have got damaged half shaft marks, but that doesnt mean anything)

[ToyTA22]

Jess. Checking backlash is like what you said but hold pinion and rock crownwheel slowly till just stops then rock in other direction, that is your backlash.
After you do a few you get used to doing these things, i've had to rebuild a Escort centre same size and design at rally service with basic hand toolsin 1996, last I knew was still working now. So can be done with little tools.
Just take your time and you'll get it.

[jb_22]

use search also, there is another Topic also at 6.6+" / 6.7" D/T series Diffs and LSD units.. BUT Aftermarket LSD units no needed axle trimming, only stock type. TRD is Direct Fit, like KAAZ, have install bought + some other aftermarket units also. to my cars TRS and KAAZ and KAAZ is still in my Carina TA12, those have same axle than TA22 have.

TRD is direct fit like KAAZ? Meaning the axles don't need shortening? I have read those threads before and was under the impression TRD LSD units needed the TA22 axles shortened, but KAAZ/Cusco etc didn't need the axles shortened.

Gonna take the plunge on the weekend, local diff shop reckons $700 for an overhaul. But new bearings, seals and tools I need come to under $200 - pretty simple math there! Hopefully the LSD centre arrives before Friday so I can get her back on the road ASAP

beer cans and rattle cans is a bit ghetto spec, the worst I've done is use a cereal box for intake manny gasket Might pull it down just to check there isn't anything that shouldn't be. I guess they get shimmed to give more agressive lock-up characteristics?

[convertableTA23]

More shimming the greater the torque difference required at each wheel before wheelspin (locks up harder) or greater breaking torque of the diff, however, the more shimming the quicker they wear and the more frequent the oil needs changing. It is a two edged sword. Shimming can be done either at the end of the clutch pack (between the outer "flower" shaped disk and the hemisphere housing) or a washer can be placed under the spring in the centre. Just remember if shimming at the outer point to equally shim each side to keep the packs spaced correctly from the centre which is deffinatly the prefered method. Another trick is to sandblast the "flower" shaped disks too, it increases the co-efficent of friction between the two types of disks and gives incresed breaking torque (harder lock-up). Once again though increases wear.

All you need is a tube of bearing blue, a dial guage and magnetic base, a torque wrench and some scrap steel and bolts. Make a "spanner" for the side carrier adjusting nuts out of some scrap steel and some old bolts (i think i used to use 5mm ones) and make a tool to hold the pinnion flange with using some scrap steel bolted to the flange, about 500mm long so you can wedge it against the bench when tightening the pinion nut.

If you are doing a few diffs arb make a set of pliers that you use for the side carrier adjusting nuts, they are about $90 though, but will suit most light automotive 3rd member applications.

Buy a new crush sleve too, reusing the old one will mean it will crush easyer, leaving the pinion bearings with less pre-load. If you want to really do it properly get an engineering shop to spin you up a solid spacer and shim it to the correct pre-load. All the 4wd diffs i have done get a solid spacer and none have failed (yet) even though most end up with diff locks of some kind.

If you are using the existing crown wheel and pinion set in the existing case there should be no need to reset the pinion depth (shimming the pinion). Just check the tooth contact patern for depth before pulling the diff apart with your bearing blue.

[jb_22]

Seeing as I've got to get my axles shortened I may as well get the same joint to make me up a spacer with a few shims. I'll check with Allied bearings if the crush tubes are available too beforehand though. Sounds pretty straightforward now. Here's a question but - what's the go with the pinion flange nut? It looks like I'm gonna have to partially destory it to get it off. Do I just use a Nylock replacement? It seems like a weird nut that is probs gonna be hard to find.

[convertableTA23]

Buy a diff rebuild kit if you can, it should come with the crush tube and nut if that's the way you want to go, if not go to the local auto parts store that isn't supercrap/ripco and talk to someone there with half a brain, the nut should actually be easy to get, it is called a spike nut too. To take it off just use a impact gun, if you don't have one it will just be alot of work with some swearing.

[jb_22]

I will make up a really long pinion flange jig & I have 1.7m of galvanised pipe to put over a breaker bar, ought to do the job. Diff rebuild kit sounds a goer if I can find one