Draft of National Rules for Vehicle Modifications

[takai]

And here is the technical difference between a Highway and Freeway. Technically, somewhere in legislation, a highway is limited to 110km/h wheras a freeway is 100km/h.

Supposedly in NSW it has to be a divided road for 110km/h to be posted as well.

[Gold28]

I agree with oldcorrolas, it is imortant that all modified vehicles meet an acceptable standard of safety and emissions. To drive a car that fails these requirements is irresponsible.

Having said that, and knowing fairly well the modified car scene in Australia, I think that the government should be encouraging drivers to properly qualify their vehicles. This means that if they enforce emission testing, make it reasonably priced otherwise your average idiot is gonna to a dodgy conversion and not engineer it just because he doesn´t want to fork out the cash for the test.

Personally I think it would be more responsible of the government to accept the fact that Australia has a strong culture of modifying cars and work with it. They did it with WSID, and stopped a lot of treet racing. Why not have a government sponsored emissions test centre and remove the excuses for not engineering a car.



Oh and as far as the ADR´s are concerned, I was under the impression that you had to comply with the most recent year ADR´s of the vehicle chassis and the donor engine. As is most often the case, a latter year engine is put into an older car, therefore by showing that the engine and all of it's supporting systems such as fuel, exhaust, computer etc are equivalent to that of the already complied donor vehicle then you have demonstrated compliance by association and thus testing is not required.

Now if it is the intention that all modified cars meet the current ADR's then we are all pretty much stuffed.

[4agte]

Now if it is the intention that all modified cars meet the current ADR's then we are all pretty much stuffed.

yup this would suck the massive dong

[oldcorollas]

IHaving said that, and knowing fairly well the modified car scene in Australia, I think that the government should be encouraging drivers to properly qualify their vehicles. This means that if they enforce emission testing, make it reasonably priced otherwise your average idiot is gonna to a dodgy conversion and not engineer it just because he doesn´t want to fork out the cash for the test.

Personally I think it would be more responsible of the government to accept the fact that Australia has a strong culture of modifying cars and work with it. They did it with WSID, and stopped a lot of treet racing. Why not have a government sponsored emissions test centre and remove the excuses for not engineering a car.

you know what? i reckon Toymods, including the forums, may have enough members to actually influence things....

say we have 2000 people who start campaigning to all parliament members for cheap/free testing to allow THEM to be more responsible with regard to the old aussie tradition of modifying cars!! if we get other clubs onboard, then it could be even easier.. first step is to put it on the agenda, then to try and get reasonable limits set (ie, age of car related?)

it would not be difficult/expensive for them to set up, and with large patronage it could even turn money over in the long run...

i think it is worth considering and would change the aussie modifying car scene for the better!! (and may even result in aftermarket computers being allowed to be used, so long as the tune was certified...)

so, anyone wanna take up the fight?

[chris davey]

Just on the topic of enforcability based on year of the engine and car, my friend was telling me how 13b's can easily be used to get around these rules.

As they are effectively the same engine from 1972 (ish) to about 2000(ish) then having a 2000 model one would disadvantage a modified car as it would have to comply with 2000 rules. However, it is pretty simple to use the part of the engine that has the engine number on it (think it is the rear end housing) from say a 1974 model car in your 2000 model engine and there is nearly no chance of getting caught.

Anyway, that is just something I was thinking of

Re Stu's comment: Sounds like a very good idea. But first we all would have to read the proposed laws, see what we think needs amending and then bring it forward. Add onto that some other ideas that we have and there you go. Only problem I can see is that say of those 2000 members, if 10% of people prefer to do dodgy mods even when the laws are working with them then those people aren't going to change their attitudes instantly. And we all know that their are dodgy modifiers around.

And with regard to getting other forums members, you would have to select ones that have a good reputation as not being wankers on the road with illegal cars but I think most of us know which ones are like that anyway.

[TheToyman75]

Just an update since thsi is an important thread forallot of us.

I have been speaking to a couple of engineers in the last couple of days as I am trying to stretch the current guidleines a little. Actually not stretch them, just get an engineer to apply them as written (and interpreted by me to suit my needs ) rather than what is all safe and cosy. It appears as tho the fear of being reamed by the RTA is well and truely in place.

A word to the wise not to hold your breathe re the DOTARS guidelines. All not looking so good for any time soon if at all.

mmm Might have to check the interstate regs for my plans

[CrUZida]

Umm, according to WA's technical department, these regs are in place, and any car going over the pits needs to abide by them.

I am building my whole car by them, and my engineer has no problems with that at all.


How can National Regs be in force in one state, but not in others?

[mrshin]

Umm, according to WA's technical department, these regs are in place, and any car going over the pits needs to abide by them.

I am building my whole car by them, and my engineer has no problems with that at all.


How can National Regs be in force in one state, but not in others?

How lovely. Now all I have to do is move to WA and use YOUR engineer - any engineer in this part of the world looks at you all funny when you suggest anything national, then proceeds to tell you how it doesn't actually mean anything. You can't really argue with them much about it either, as I'm still at their mercy regardless of how stupid their claims are...

[CrUZida]

Sounds like the engineers over east think they are higher than god.

The guy I use is down-to-earth and very realistic.

[TheToyman75]

Cruzida,

First I almost wish I had your engineer BUT its more like your engineer is doing you a gross dis-service by not advising on what is actually legal as opposed to what he wants to be. They DOTARS proposal is still listed as "DRAFT" regs because thats all they are.

I have been speaking to 1 of the engineers on the approval board pushing for the legislation and in all honestly its not looking very promising at all. They have been in the process for quite a few years already and he beleives the movement is destined to fail

I was speaking at length to another engineer who has beenstaying up to date with the process and in a nut shell its something like this. Even at this early stage the DOTARS group and the Engineers are conflicted on the basic impact of responsibility for moddified cars. Ie DOTARS wants engineers to be solely responsible and accept all ramifications of any car they approve. The engineers of course didn't like the sound of that as it puts them liable when al they are doing is enforcing someone else's policy. The enginners have resubmitted there desired thoughts as to how it should work and are pending a reply. Ie the concept still hasn't been agreed apon much less any details or seak state level approval/comments.

Its all fine and well if your engineer gives you paperwork that isn't actually in effect BUT if you get done buy your states regulatory body you may as well have written it yourself.for all it will be worth

Its kind of like the DRAFT for the Condition registratiuon that Toymods applied for a few years ago. The Draft was awesome, any age vehicle, limited mileage runs allowed tokeep the car in working order, no annual inspection and rego & greenslip of $60 od $$ a year. Where is it now..... Scrapped ! Closest curently in force in NSW is "Hot Rod" rego for vehicles built before 1949

[CrUZida]

Perhaps you missed this Rod

Umm, according to WA's technical department, these regs are in place, and any car going over the pits needs to abide by them.

ie the guys that have the final say whether what you have done is ok (they approve the engineers report) have told me that these regulations are in force and that I will need to bide by them when I get my car registered.

The NCOP's USED to have DRAFT watermarked all over them, but this was dropped in the February revision.
Everywhere I've checked in WA, they are in force.

[CrUZida]

Also check here Rod
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transport/s.../vsb_ncop.aspx

No where there can I find the word DRAFT.
Please let me know if I have missed it.

It is important to note that the NCOP is a "live" document and will be updated by the Working Party as required.

To me 'live' means its in force, and they reserve the right to change it when ever they chose.

[Gold28]

It may be that the new regs must be accepted by each state before they become national legislation.

WA may have accepted them and jumped the gun with inforcing them before they are accepted nationally. While they are their own governing body, they can enforce/condone any rules they want. Hence Cruzidas engineer may be perfectly legal.

NSW and I take it most other states are still argueing over technicalities of liability and until they get agreement from all states, it won't be a national ruling.

[JustCallMeOrlando]

Indeed. Jack (his and my engineer) is fair, but also will stick to those rules. WA tends to be a law unto their own, and it doesn't surprise me we've gone ahead and adopted them before anyone else.

[TheToyman75]

Cruzida,

WA always did have some interesting regs re the Modifiction of vehicles and based on what your saying I can only agree that it looks like WA has jumped the national Gun and adopted the regs already. As such I guess the NCOP isn't in place BUT WA is workingtothe guidlines, If only NSW would do this as well I'd be set.

I have emailed the NSW contact listed on the DOTARS site so will post up there reply if I get one re whats in store for NSW.

I guess this is the paragraph that gets to the point:

Certain jurisdictions will need to make changes to their administrative arrangement in order to fully implement the NCOP. Prospective constructors or modifiers should contact the jurisdiction in which a vehicle is to be registered or modified to determine the most up to date information about the business rules or transitional arrangements that may be in force.

Based on that it seems pretty clear that some states are and some are not playing ball.