3sfe to 3sge conversion, starter motor problem

[Rhyno]

Hey Everyone,

Hope you don't mind helping me out with a little of your know how, as I have hit the wall with a conversion problem. Yes I have searched and searched, but alas this is not the most common conversion...

Car: 1991 SV21 Camrystationwagon
Engine: 1988 ST162 3SGE Gen 1
Flywheel:1988 ST162 3SGE Gen 1
Gearbox: Stock Camry box, I believe it is a S53? I think that it what they came with...
Starter Motor Location: Gearbox side

So got this this little sleeper all bolted up and running but you have to push start the bastard atm, as the starter motor does not engage with the flywheel. On inspection the starter is throwing out but the gears are not messing; that is there is a clear 2mm gap betweeb the teeth when egaged.

Before I bolted the GB up to the donk I took the time of comparing the flywheels (with the Mk1 eyeball) and they look virtually the same, and I counted the teeth and they where excatly the same number: 118 teeth if I reecall correctly...

Now speaking to the bloke I got the donk off, he dropped in a Gen 3 GTE into his st162, and thinks he had to use a 5SFE flywheel and starter to get the lot bolted together and working correctly, but he did this conversion some time ago and has since sold the car.

Now I have tried several different starter motors: The stock 3sfe, a 3sgte (identical except 1 plug is slightly different by the way), a 2SC (which has a smaller diameter gear), and I have gone to a wreckers and inspected a 5sfe starter, and its virtualy identical to the 3sfe, both having a gear diameter of 40mm.

Can anyone confirm the difference in flywheels between the 3sfe, 3sge and or 5sfe? Or if there is a bigger geared starter motor I should use? My gut feeling is that the 5sfe flywheel is bigger, and will need to be fitted to the GE donk to work with the carmy gearbox. Or find/get machined a custom gear to suit, but surely Toyota made something that suits!

Any help will be greatly appreciated and + Repped, as its not cool having a sleeper you have to push start!

Kind Regards,

Ryan

[jonathan yee]

the 5sfe has the same bolt pattern as the gen1 3sge.

i believe the gen1 FW has a different offset for the mounting surface.

are you able to just pull the gen1 f/w off and put on a 5sfe one or is that too much?

sometimes you can just use the gen1 3sge starter on the engine side as it's supposed to if the bolt holes for the starter on the gearbox go all the way through.

when people fit gen2/3 3sgte's and use the s54 box they have to use the gen2/3 NA FW's. they have a different PCD on the cranks to the gen1 and 5s cranks

[mick.wheelz]

try a 5SFE starter, they work no dramas with a 3SGTE bolted up to their gbox.

[Rhyno]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replys!

Jonathan, no it is not to hard to pull out the GB and fit a 5sfe flywheel, just wanted to make sure I can get the right bits or I would have just opted for a custom made gear...but Im going to try the easiest approach first

mick.wheelz, Im gonna give a 5sfe starter a go and if that don't work throw a 5sfe FW in.

Thanks + Rep

Ryan

[Rhyno]

So the plot thickens brought a 5SFE starter today and the bastard is near identical to the 3SFE but just a different plug.

Tommorows plan is to take a 3sfe flywheel and compare it too the 5sfe at the wreckers, as I already know the FE is the same as the GE flywheel that is currently installed. Surely the 5s item is bigger, or I will be getting a custom stater gear made up.

Fingers crossed,

Ryan

[Rhyno]

So took the 3SFE Flywheel to the wreckers and compaired them to the 5SFE item. The bloke said that the 8 bolt 5SFE is the same size as the 8 bolt 3SFE Flywheel... but the 6 bolt 5SFE has a bigger diameter... But I think the donk thats in there has a 6 bolt from memory???

So currently pulling out the gearbox, should be out tommorow and be able to check if the Gen 1 3SGE has an 8 bolt or an 6 bolt flywheel. Hopefully its a 6 bolt; if thats the case I should have her starting in the next day or so

[jonathan yee]

i've not come across any 3sge cranks with 6bolt ends. tho i've seen someone with a gen1 3sge head and a 3sfe bottom end before in their st162.

nor have i heard about different sized 5s FW's, all 5s FW's i've seen are 8bolt same as gen1 3sg(t)e and same O/A dia as all 3sgte. but they have a smaller clutch plate/cover, same as gen2 3sge

[Rhyno]

So the plot thickens again!

Thanks Jonathan...

Bugger... well it looks like im completly out of luck then, going to have to get a custom flywheel made up.

I bet there is no one in the world that makes bigger diameter FW's, espically for this application.

Ryan

[jonathan yee]

i think the 5sfe FW is bigger than the gen1 ge FW. but not the gte wheel. i'll take pics for you. think i have one of each at home

[wiso]

is there a reason you can't use an 88 ST162 stater under the exhaust manifold?

if people uses the ST162 box that has the stater under exhaust when they convert to 3sgte and cut a hole in the back of the box and mount a 5sfe starter though with bolts there is no reason you can't cover up the normal hole above your gearbox and cut a new hole in the cover plate behind the flywheel and mount an st162 starter on the exhaust side. since all the 3s/5s motors use the same manifolds/extractors you can't say it won't fit under. since you are using a ST162 3sge it was made to go there.

would be cheaper than a custom flywheel

[Rhyno]

Hi Jonathan,

That would be tops mate! I should have the Gen 1 GE flywheel out tonight to compare :-)

Kind Regards,

Ryan

[jonathan yee]

gen1 FW on top. same PCD as 5sfe underneath. 5sfe FW larger dia.
s54 starter on top, e153 starter underneath

[Rhyno]

Hey guys,

Dont know what happened but my post didn't go up last night?... anyways

Thanks for the info wiso, the reason I want to keep the starter on the GB side is for a few reasons; 1 in case I ever want to turbo the car I wanted the starter to clear he manifold, 2 I fear that the Genie extractors fitted would hit the starter, and 3rd I don't have a starter suitabile for the exhaust side.

On that 3rd point I assume the ST162 starter must be different and have a shorter "neck" and not stick the starter gear out as far, as it seems that using any other one would make it stick out too far but aligned with the FW... just trying to work out the differences.

Thanks Jonathan Yee, thats AWESOME news! Will just fit up a 5SFW and should be happy days, thats the extra clearance I was looking for!

Edit: Just going back through the posts,

nor have i heard about different sized 5s FW's, all 5S FW's i've seen are 8bolt same as gen1 3sg(t)e and same O/A dia as all 3sgte. but they have a smaller clutch plate/cover, same as gen2 3sge

so the best FW to use would be a 3SGTE item as its the same larger size as the 5s and has the same clutch plate size as the Gen 1 3SGE? Just I have two 300 hp rated clucthes I would like to uterlise... and if I switched to the 5S FW i would need to get a smaller 5S clutch/plate cover to suit?

Thanks again,

Kind Regards,

Ryan

[jonathan yee]

should just be able to use either a 3sge or 5sfe clutch and cover. the 3sgte clutch cover and disc will not suit the 5s FW nor the s54 gearbox

[jonathan yee]

the overall dia of the 5sfe FW is the same as the 3sgte but the clutch cover and disc is smaller the same as gen2+ 3sge.

dunno about the gen1 clutch cover, it'd prob fit