Wolf3d v4 to 4agze cas wiring

[The Witzl]

i seem to also believe from memory that Wolf3D units expect a VR signal that is the reverse of what the Toyota VR sensors put out from factory.

IE - if the toyota factory VR signal is falling edge zero cross.... the Wolf3D is looking for a RISING EDGE zero cross.


Double check in the Wolf3D manual to see what VR signal it is looking for.
I'm pretty sure that the 4AGZE VR signals from the CAS are falling edge... (ie, goes high first, then low)

[The Witzl]

Yep - i just checked the Wolf3D V4 user manual:

http://wolfems.com/files/Installatio...457%201004.pdf

.. see page 11.


The Wolf3D V4 is definitely looking for a RISING EDGE zero-cross VR signal. IE, the signal goes LOW first, then high.

I am pretty sure that Toyota VR sensors are FALLING EDGE zero cross.

Therefore you might need to reverse the wiring to the VR sensors. This will probably mean you need to separate the negative wires from each of the CAS VR sensors (the white wires inside the CAS), as they are all joined together. This will be fiddly, but you have to do it.

The WHITE wire from each sensor is therefore the positive VR signal, and the coloured wire is the negative.

Check it on a CRO if you have one

[mikie]

the config option is in the software to set weather you are using falling or rising edge. you can set the option under the trigger sequencing - mode sync polarity.

Mike

[The Witzl]

it clearly states on page 11 of the Wolf3D V4 user manual, as linked to above, that the input for a VARIABLE RELUCTOR signal must be rising edge.

It doesnt highlight there that you can select an alternative trigger edge for a VR signal... it is quite specific that you have to use a rising edge VR signal.

.. i could be wrong of course

[ira11y]

As per another link from an eon ago.... heres some base maps that might help you to get started, these are for a NA 4AGE that I built years ago but might help you to get it cracking

http://www.toymods.org.au/~ira11y/Wolf%204AGE%20Files/

and the link

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/sho...ghlight=ira11y

[TurboRA28]

After stuffing around I got the trigger light on the ecu to flash and what sounds like a good injectorv pulse. But there is no activity on the ignition lights. No spark either. Any ideas why the ecu is choosing not to output any ignition signal?

[TurboRA28]

Michael, were they using a 4 tooth dizzy or 24 tooth cas?

[TurboRA28]

I have found if I spin the cas by hand then on the ECU I get trigger 1 and trigger 2 lights flashing along with injector and ignition output lights.. Also on the laptop I see a RPM signal (all over the place and lots of sync errors)

But when in the engine and cranking none of this happens. No rpm signal, no ignition lights etc.

Bat volt while cranking is 10v, is that enough or maybe this causing some issues?

[The Witzl]

no that should be enough, no problems for an ECU (thats normal cranking voltage).

tried the old "spin the dissy with a cordless drill" trick yet? That should net about 800rpm with a good cordless drill, which is enough for bench testing.
Of course it might be wise when testing like this to unplug the injectors, so that you dont flood the engine, and maybe disconnect power to the fuel pump as well... and hook up a decent battery charger so that you dont flatten the battery whilst testing.

Put a test light across one of the injector plugs to see if it truly is firing as you think it is whilst spinning the dissy with a drill.

What ignitor are you using? Are you using the factory wasted spark coils also?

[ira11y]

I think it was with a 5 tooth (dual pulse), it was so long ago I cant really remember, I know it was a GZE dizzy with a custom disc.

something to check might be the clearances to the pick up on your sensor, you should easily get a signal if you just spin it by hand. I had some difficulties with a low battery level on one of my projects with the wolf, I would suggest using a good fresh battery every time you test and that 10V may not necessarily be enough for the wolf in some cases.

Im not sure who has all my old Wolf manuals but if I can find them then there were a tonne of hand written notes inside about some of the problems you are experiencing.

With regard to the coils I would check that they are functioning, I had an issue like this and found one of the coil packs to be faulty. Also see if you can borrow a working ignitor from another car and check that your fault does not start from there. Basically just go thru and ignore all the connections you think are correct and actually prove each connector from the wolf to the ignitor and then to the coil, make sure the coil is powering up when the key is turned on etc etc, its usually the simplest of things

[TurboRA28]

I'll chuck the CAS on a drill tonight and see what happens.. I believe it'll work, maybe not correctly due to the settings, but i can hear the injectors going when spinning with hand and i've had the very occasional ignition so there is a bit of spark there. but this is only when spinning by hand.. dead when its cranking over in the engine and im not sure yet if this is due to it spinning slower than what I am doing via hand or voltage etc.

I am powering up the ECU & ignitors (bosch 008s) via relays with power sources directly to the battery.

[TurboRA28]

So had a bit of a win tonight.. After stuffing around for ages trying to work out why spinning by hand vs engine was different, it became apparent that it was speed related. I could spin it faster by hand than cranking speed.
It seemed a slow spin of the CAS resulted in nothing on the Wolf, but a fast spin got some signal.

So I closed the gaps right up in the CAS between sensor and teeth and bam! a signal on the Wolf at slow speeds.

I have spark and fuel now, not sure if in the correct order or sequence etc but it's something.

Mikie, what is your logic on those settings for my ignition? Most maps I am seeing have 0123 spread around in the ignition, but due to me firing waste spark I only want to use 0 and 1?

Thanks
Joel

[mikie]

good to hear. that depends, im 100% on how the ignition system is set up on the gze.
from what i managed to find out, still asuming a bit, that the 4agze uses 2 ignition feeds from the ecu to the igniter, then the igniter fires 2 coils, of which, each one is linked to 2 spark plugs, then yes. you will most definitly use this as your ignition setup.
im in not mistaken there shoud be 3 wires running from the ecu to the ignitor. a igt, igd adn igf? also make sure that you have cylinders 1 and 4 connected to one coil and cylinders 2 and 3 connected to the other.
does this crudely drawn diagram from someones blog seem correct??


if so your ignition should look like the following.
Ignition 1 pulse offset:0 (fires ignition output 1 first)
Ignition 2 pulse offset:1 (fires ignition output 2 second)
Ignition 3 pulse offset:255
Ignition 4 pulse offset:255
Ignition 5 pulse offset:255
Ignition 6 pulse offset:255
Ignition 1 pulse skip:1
Ignition 2 pulse skip:1
Ignition 3 pulse skip:255
Ignition 4 pulse skip:255
Ignition 5 pulse skip:255
Ignition 6 pulse skip:255

that should be the right config for a 4 cyl wasted spark. and seqential injection.
if that doesnt work then change the pulse offset around ie.
Ignition 1 pulse offset:1
Ignition 2 pulse offset:0

if for instance you wanted to run all four ignition outputs from the wolf in sequential ignition it would look like this:
Ignition 1 pulse offset:0 (fires ignition output 1 first)
Ignition 2 pulse offset:1 (fires ignition output 2 second)
Ignition 3 pulse offset:2
Ignition 4 pulse offset:3
Ignition 5 pulse offset:255
Ignition 6 pulse offset:255
Ignition 1 pulse skip:3
Ignition 2 pulse skip:3
Ignition 3 pulse skip:3
Ignition 4 pulse skip:3
Ignition 5 pulse skip:255
Ignition 6 pulse skip:255

4 ignition outputs and igniters/coils running dli but in wasted spark would look like this:

Ignition 1 pulse offset:0 (fires ignition output 1 first)
Ignition 2 pulse offset:1 (fires ignition output 2 second)
Ignition 3 pulse offset:1
Ignition 4 pulse offset:0
Ignition 5 pulse offset:255
Ignition 6 pulse offset:255
Ignition 1 pulse skip:1
Ignition 2 pulse skip:1
Ignition 3 pulse skip:1
Ignition 4 pulse skip:1
Ignition 5 pulse skip:255
Ignition 6 pulse skip:255

are you confused yet. i know that i am =P

[TurboRA28]

Hey mate yeah that diagram seems correct. I am not using the Toyota ignitor but two Bosch 008s. Same deal though. What is the ignition pulse skip all about? what's the 1 there for?

[mikie]

its to skip an ignition event on that ignition output, so if your using 2 output it will fire one after the other. ie. igt1, igt2, igt1, igt2 so on so on..
with 2 ignition outputs you would set it to 1
with 4 ignition outputs you would set it to 3.
with 6 ignition outputs you would set it to 5.
have a read of this from page 13. they explain it better than i can.
http://www.wolfems.com/files/WOLF3D%...20Tech%207.pdf

Mike