Anyone confirm S53 g/box ratio ?

[RWDboy]

Just a quick question, I did have my heart set on getting an S54 for my ST162 (ex ST184 or something like that, or even MR2) but they are either too expensive to get my hands on, or simply unavailable. I will be using a Gen 2 3S-GE motor with a 5S-FE crankshaft in the ST162. Given that the 5S-FE crankshaft will suit the flywheel from the ST184 etc (and not the original 1st gen 3S-GE flywheel) I am assuming I will need to use the ST184 flywheel, plus the ST184 starter motor layout.

I've stumbled across an SV21 Camry with a S53 (same transmission code as the ST162) and I am led to believe that they have a 3.933 final drive ratio - whereas the S53 in the ST162 has a 4.11 final drive. Is anyone able to confirm that the S53 gearbox + starter from a Camry (passenger side starter motor layout) will mate with the 2nd gen 3S/5S-FE crank and flywheel combo ? And also can anyone confirm the final gear ratio ? Also - is there any significant internal difference between the two S53's (ex-ST162 and ex SV-21) - I would assume the gear ratio's themselves would all be the same?

What is the advantage of the S54 over the S53 ? Different gear ratio's or is the construction significantly different ?

Need answers quick thanks !

[Aust162]

Reading out of a wheels magazine from 1986. trans final drive for st162 sx is 4.176. final drive of st162 st is 3.736. i dont know if the camry s53 is different to the st s53. i have a feeling they're the same.

[RWDboy]

Any other takers out there ? need to know if the flywheel etc will be okay more than anything i guess!

[trd3sg]

5sfe flywheel and clutch are same as the gen3 3sge flywheel\clutch - and are thicker to accomodate for the longer shaft in the s54 box

In my 162 with gen 1 3sge at the moment - it runs an s54 box with the gen1 3sge flyhweel\clutch - this is fine EXCEPT - becuase the s54 has a larger bellhousing to accomodate for the larger flywheel\clutch plate from the 5sfe, my motor will bog down a little from take off and every excursion of the clutch (gear change).

The sv21 & ST version of the 162 are identical in that they have the taller final drive (i had one in my st162 sx before, and it sat on 2700rpm at 110kmh, wheres the s54 i now have sits at just over 3000 (almost 3100) at the same speed. The SX gearbox in the st162 had the shorter final drive as mentioned above, meaning it too would have the motor at about 3000\3100 at 110km/h. Gears 1-4 in the s53 out of the sx are identical to the st and sv21 gearbox, with the only difference being 5th gear.

Also, b/w the st162 boxes (either st or sx), i have found that the s54 has a taller ratio from 3rd to 4th but shorter from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd - i dont have any exact ratios but just from driving around for long enough.

Now in the gen 3 conversion im in the middle of at the moment (and decided to proceed with), i will be using the s53 box (cos the s54 box in the car at the moment has a crap 3rd gear synchro) with the gen 3 3sge clutch\flywheel (which are identical to the 5sfe) - the gen 3 shared the characterisitic of the starter motor being on the gearbox side with the 5sfe, AS WELL as the 3sfe that came in the st st162 and the sv21 camry

either start will work although if you use the 5sfe\ gen 3 onwards starter (mounted on gearbox side with the long drive), then you MUST use the 5sfe/gen 3 flywheel or have the gen 1/2 3sge flywheel drilled to accomodate the starter's drive.

Hope this makes sense

Mick

[StuC]

gen2 and 3 flywheels are the same and thus the same as the 5s ones. they are an 8 bolt pattern and slightly larger/thicker than the gen1 which is 6 bolt. Im currently lookin for a gen2/3 3s flywheel or 5s onewhich will need custom clutch plate to accomodate different splines and sizes etc.. No idea on ratios Stephen, sorry.

[RWDboy]

Hmm because I am using a 5S-FE crank I will have to use a later model flywheel (ie 8 bolt, different pattern to the Gen 1 3S-GE/FE) - so I need to use the 5S-FE starter motor, is that right? The mounting point for the starter should be okay given that I will (probably) be using the S53 out of a SV21 ... right (ie mounted from the gearbox side) ?

Unless, of course, you know anyone willing to sell an S54 In which case I would then use an S54 + 5S-FE flywheel + 5S-FE starter motor...

[trd3sg]

gen2 and 3 flywheels are the same and thus the same as the 5s ones. they are an 8 bolt pattern and slightly larger/thicker than the gen1 which is 6 bolt. Im currently lookin for a gen2/3 3s flywheel or 5s onewhich will need custom clutch plate to accomodate different splines and sizes etc.. No idea on ratios Stephen, sorry.

i dont see why you would need a custom clutch plate - the s53 and s54 input shafts are exactly the same - regardless of starter position etc - otherwise i would not have been able to use my current s54 with the gen1 3sge flywheel\clutch combo.

now, however i will be doing the opposite, using the gen 3 motor (including gen 3 clutch\flywheel - which is the same as the s54) on a s53 gearbox - however to do so you must ensure (as RWDboy as got sorted already) that you use the 5sfe or in my case the gen 3 3sge (same) starter motor mounted on the gearbox side.

Also remember there are a mutlitude of s53 boxes - there were the ones in the sv21 camry, which were the same as the ST celica ones mated to the 3sfe - these had the starter motor on the gearbox side with the hole still in the other side of the bellhousing to allow the use of say the SX ST162 3sge starter motor (under exhaust manifold), but only with the removal of the flex plate. Then there was the s53 that was in the SX ST162 behind the 3sge - this had the hole only on the exhaust side for the starter motor, and was blanked off on the other side - this one would not be usable with a 5sfe clutch\flywheel and therefore not usable with the gen 2 + gen 3 clutch\flywheel because they NEED the starter motor to be on the gearbox side. Then there was the s53 out of the early st184 5sfe backed SX celicas (aus spec - im not sure bout jdm given the multitude of combinations available) - this is the gearbox i will be using for my gen 3 conversion.

The larger 5s clutch\flywheel (and therefore gen 2 + 3 3sge ones too) WILL physically fit the s53 box - and all s53 boxes except the standard one in the SX ST162 (3sge backed - with the hole on gearbox side blanked out) will be usable with the 5s\gen 2+3 3sge clutch\flywheel.

[RWDboy]

Yer that sounds about right !

[StuC]

sorry - you're right. what was i thinking? You can actually drill those blanked out holes from the 3sge 162 and use the camry started. i have a gen3 starter with about 1000kms on it to use and will need to drill out the blanks. So it looks like its gonna be an Exedy HD item for me then.

[RWDboy]

Yeah i picked up the S53 out of the camry today - just need to find the right starter to match the 5S flywheel and I should be right. Should easily be able to crack 210 with the planned motor and the gearing, and cruise at 110km/h at 3100ish rpm instead of 3500 ... yayness.

[wagonist]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I'm trying to find out what gearboxes were fitted to the 3S & 5S engines (& possibly even the V6s).
I'm looking at doing a conversion on mine but I'd like to pick a box that has a tall 5th gear for good highway economy.

Can anyone shed some light?

[RWDboy]

I'm fairly sure E54's, S54s and S53s were all stuck onto 3S motors ... as for what has what gear ratio .... ummm - no idea!

The reason I ended up going for the S53 out of a Camry is that it has a fairly low final drive ratio (3.7ish : 1) so it should be better for highway driving - as for one that specifically has a lower 5th gear ratio - no idea man

[Euphoria]

The dam wreckers gave me an S53 and me as usual not really noticing until I see the mount months later and the warranty is up, pretty annoyed.

Could anyone out there with an S53 do me a HUGE favour and give me a rough idea of what speeds the gears do near redline on their S53 as I'm not looking forward to old man gear ratios haha.

I know the S54 out of a 6th gen in a road test is the following

1st: 50 at 6200rpm
2nd: 83 at 6200rpm
3rd: 123 at 6200rpm
4th: 160 at 6200rpm
5th: 195 at 6200rpm

[beerhead]

My old wide body 5SFE box on the limiter was 60 1st, 100 2nd at similar revs. The ST182 box thats in there now is identical to your box Euphoria. Ironically the car is actually slower with the lower gearing as the 5SFE had the torque to pull longer gears. Wish you were in QLD, would happily swap for a short ratio S53...

[Euphoria]

Thanks heaps! yeah I'd defs swap, thats annoying.

So hows the S53 for torque, does it still pull in 2nd from down low well?

It's probably in better condition too as we all know camry drivers aren't the fastest haha.