R154 gearbox rebuild gone wrong

[zombie]

this might sound silly, but did the box get filled back up with oil after removal and refitting?

[Cressida91GLX]

Yes if you are going to rebuild it . And if you are careful enough you can manage to change it with minimum spillage.

[Esselte]

Second is virtually impossible to get into gears, have to match revs or just force it to crunch through, and even then it's almost impossible (hence i dont try)
Fourth was difficult for a bit, but now after a couple of days it seems ok. First is tough, third is very easy and fifth is easiest.
We thought of the oil, it definently has oil, we filled it through the shifter cradle until it came out the filler hole (the top hole). It might need a top up, i've been waiting for the hoist to be free to check the level properly again, although i doubt it's used up so much oil as to be crunching. I'm just cruising it around as much as possible now avoiding grinding noises until it will be ripped out and re-assessed.
I'm upset that the rebuilt has made the box way worse, considering how tough R154's are supposed to be, i couldn't saved mysefl alot of money and time and took my chances with the bearing noise it had (but functioning fine). Especially if bearings and syncros as apparently so hard to determine if they are broken, then it's a ridiculous venture unless the box is completely stuffed already and NEEDS a rebuild.

[bk_]

What about reverse? is it easy or hard?

Sounds like oil can be ruled out - if it overflowed from the side filler hole when filling it up then it's ok. Do you remember how much oil you actually put in?

You may still want to drain it to see if the oil is different in color, or for loose fragments. If there is no gold-like color/stuff, then the synchros have not been chewed. Even when I drove my gearbox without oil, the synchros didn't get affected at all.

Hmmm... Most likely the gearbox was not put together properly - It's quite difficult to do it since it's the more complex (has more parts) than an engine. But if a professional guy did it - then that's just sad. Hmm... some parts (the pins holding the gears I think) can go either way, but only one way is right. Unfortunately I have not done a full gearbox rebuild - just going what I remembered from the rb2[05]det rebuild guide.

Most difficult thing is to find the problem.

-BK.

[Norbie]

since it's the more complex (has more parts) than an engine.

You're joking right? An R154 might have more parts than a lawnmower engine, but not even close to what's in a car engine!

[Esselte]

reverse is always tricky (or has been) in this R154, not sure how it compares to other R154's, as i havn't driven any. It's a straight cut gear with no syncros ib elieve so it crunches a little all the time when going into reverse, but only slightly, and often nothing if you go from first to reverse. However now it actually sounds really nasty when driving in reverse.
I really really hope there has been no damage done, i don't think i should be liable for it if any has been, the box isn't running any more power than it was before. It was supposed to be perfect (i.e. no more bearing noise) instead it's screwed and has who knows what damage now.
We'll have to drain the oil again anyway when we remove the box again to give back to the builder, so we'll check for signs there.

[cptsideways]

reverse is always tricky (or has been) in this R154, not sure how it compares to other R154's, as i havn't driven any. It's a straight cut gear with no syncros ib elieve so it crunches a little all the time when going into reverse, but only slightly, and often nothing if you go from first to reverse. However now it actually sounds really nasty when driving in reverse.
I really really hope there has been no damage done, i don't think i should be liable for it if any has been, the box isn't running any more power than it was before. It was supposed to be perfect (i.e. no more bearing noise) instead it's screwed and has who knows what damage now.
We'll have to drain the oil again anyway when we remove the box again to give back to the builder, so we'll check for signs there.

Does it change ok with the engine off?

Does'nt sound like the gearbox to me, more like the thrust bearing, did you fit a new one??

[Esselte]

ok changing gears when the car is off is tricky to explain. Sometimes it shifts ok, other times it doesn't. I tried a couple of times today, if you just turn the car off, and try to shift in to gears without touching the clutch it's difficult, and hard to get into any gear, or you can't get it into any gear at all without forcing it.
If you push the clutch down and try to shift gears it's either the same story (really tough); or it will shift in ok. IT seems once you get it to shift into the gears (even second) once with the car off then it starts to shift smoothly. No idea what that means.

I can't see how it's thruster bearing when the thruster bearing doesn't come into play at all when the clutch is up and there is a loud grinding noise coming from the box. How can that be thruster bearing?

[joecoolmk2]

actually, i had a similar noise and symptoms with a W50. i lost most of the oil through the tailshaft hole and the very front bearing partially collapsed(lost a couple of balls), the cluster bearing was cooked, and they really howled.

[fezi]

The Thrust bearing actually rotates constantly when the clutch is up. Its only when you depress the clutch pedal and the the clutch disengages from the fly wheel that the thrust and input shaft actually slow or stop moving depending on whether the vehicle is moving or not hencethe reason why so many seem to think its the thrust bearing.

Changing gears when the car is not running is a moot point I think as depending on where each gear is stopped in the box dictates whether or not it slots easy into gear.

Either way to check the box it (thrust bearing) must be removed and checked as well. One thing to test is does the noise increase with engine rpm when sitting in neutral? If so I'd be inclined to believe that its isolated to either thrust bearing, or input shaft bearing. If it doesnt increase with engine rpm in neutral then its definetely more indepth than the thrust bearing.

One other thing have you checked that you are getting 100% clutch disengagement? Reason I ask is if the thrust is cactus it may limit the clutch from being disengaged fully and you could still be getting drive through the gbox causing shifting issues...

Good luck

[hemi twofifteen turbo]

what sort of oil did you put in it? with the wrong oil it wont go into any gears, but it doesn't explain the cruncy noises. Should be auto trans fluid not 80/90 grade gear oil.
best thing to do is take it back, it's not your problem!

[allencr]

They picked up a junkyard box and hoped it would be better then your old one. Obviously it isn't.

What's a "thrust bearing"???????????????

[thechuckster]

What's a "thrust bearing"???????????????

prevents input shaft from being pushed back into the box.

i think the correct term is thrust washer - it prevents movement along the axis of rotation.

hopefully someone will post a pic from a TSRM to show graphically.

cheers,
Charles.

[fezi]

What's a "thrust bearing"???????????????

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch3.htm

Replace "throwout bearing" with thrust bearing and thats what it is. Typically they are a needle roller bearing.

[allencr]

Thanks!
I thought this might be a OZ English to usOFa English translation problem, but now I see that it's a lack of knowledge problem.
Good luck.