R154 gearbox rebuild gone wrong

[Esselte]

Ok the grinding noise in neutral increases with the revs of the motor... so seems like it's a deeper issue.
Thanks very much for all the help and advice everyone, and the information on the throwout bearing too.
I just want to confirm that there is consensus on one thing - Is is DEFINENTLY obvious is a bearing or syncro is cactus?
Or to widen the issue - a gearbox rebuild when a box is still functional but has slight bearing noise isn't a complete waste of time is it?
I just want to make sure this rebuilder doesn't just say, oh well something else failed, it's not my fault; and then it'll cost me 3 weeks earnings in parts. Gearbox rebuilds don't often go wrong like that do they, and if they do then it's the builders fault?
R154's should be able to handle a high clamping pressure clutch without problems, especially if it was running fine before. I find it doubtful that the box was put back together perfectly and something else in the box just happened to fail by chance.

Thanks again everyone for the information, Dan.

[Esselte]

Sorry i misread the earlier post there, the noise does increase with the rpm's, so perhaps it is the thrust bearing...
Would that explain though why it's so difficult (next to impossible most times) to get into second particularly?
It seems like the clutch fully disengages, but had suspicions earlier that the clutch slave cylinder needed bleeding, and when we did that the pressure point of the clutch was raised, so perhaps the clutch not fully disengaging for the first couple of days of driving killed the thrust bearing. I guess i should hope that's all it is and nothing in the box is screwed.

[joecoolmk2]

when you drive it again, try double-pumping or triple-pumping the clutch pedal and see if that makes it easier to change.

[allencr]

First, I have to say that I have no experience with whatever a 'R154' is.

There is no "thrust bearing", and all those comments were about the release bearing, AKA throwout bearing that operates the clutch. If it is
making any noise at all, it will change when the pedal is pushed, and it will be completely eliminated by slightly pushing the clutch fork back into the slave cylinder to stop its slight contact with the spinning clutch & be motionless, hence noiseless.
It don't do it???

Syncronizers do wear, but there is never any noise at all from them at all, unless it has broken apart(very very rare) and its pieces are getting caught in the gears & turning/churning the insides to garbage.

a gearbox rebuild when a box is still functional but has slight bearing noise isn't a complete waste of time is it?
I just want to make sure this rebuilder doesn't just say, oh well something else failed, it's not my fault;

I think most times it would be, because sudden & complete bearing failures are very few compared to whirrs & whines that go on for tens of thousands of miles while gradually increasing in noise until they'll sound like a very random rod knock.
If they claim to have disassembled, inspected, replaced worn & needed parts and assembled it, then it can't be anything other then their fault!! Rebuild can't mean anything but that it's close to new.

[Esselte]

Ok throwout bearing, the noise does COMPLETELY disappear when the clutch is pressed down, as soon as it hits the pressure point while being lifted (even in neutral) it starts to grind. But there does sound like slight crunching noises coming the box intermittently as well, which may suggest parts are being caught in the internals.
Yeah, the mechanic was the one who suggested it may just be another part that fails, not the builder. I'm yet for him to inspect it hence the rebuild. There were no short cuts taken, he said the box was immaculate and that it only needed a couple of bearings, hence the fairly cheap price (700) for the rebuild.

Can anyone recommend a gearbox rebuilder to go to in Victoria, near Melbourne is possible, that i could get a second opinion from and then be completely confident that the builder is at fault if my $1500 box with a $700 rebuild is screwed?

Thanks again, Dan.

[Robbos_Toyotas]

The only strength issue with the r154 is the 1st gear thrust washer. I had a case hardened steel one made which cost me $50 or something. Problem fixed.
I plan to supercharge/ turbo my v8 which will put at least 5-600 odd hp through it. And i do this with confidence the box will cope. they are tough as nails.

[thechuckster]

query: are you still driving around with the randomly crunching gearbox? or is car off the road -(i guess you know that the more you use it, the less likely a mechanic is going to own up to barfing the rebuild).

anyway, no sound with clutch fully engaged does strongly suggest problem inside gearbox.. is a shame you're in Victoria, wilbo's getting very practiced at removing manual gearboxes from MA61s (last time was around 1hr to remove while on his own) - am sure he'd love to help

[Esselte]

No i'm barely driving it now, it's just sitting in the driveway. I will drive it to the mech's/rebuilders when he's ready though. I've only driven it about 10 times since the box was put back in; originally it had the same bearing noise as before but a little quieter (slight griding sound in neutral with clutch up, diagnosed as bearings by mechanic, and 2 bearings needed changing in the rebuild), and i just cruised it around, then we did a dyno run after the clutch was bedded in and the morning after it was grinding like crazy, sounds like it's got it's own exhaust. I've driven it 4 times since then, necessities when i've had to and couldn't avoid it and briefly to test the box.

[Esselte]

tragedy i'm in Victoria, i'm terrified i'm going to get royally screwed on this one. I'd be happy with my old slightly grinding gearbox back that was working perfectly. I'm supposed to be moving out next week, and without a car it's going to be extremely difficult, not sure what i'm going to do, that's why i wanted backup opinions so i know whether to hold this guy to account or whether it's possible that these things just screw up like this, although to me that seems ridiculously unfair and unlikely and would make the entire rebuild a waste of time considering it wasn't stuffed from the start.

[Norbie]

Dude, I can't believe you're still unsure about this issue. You paid for a rebuild, which means your gearbox should operate like a BRAND NEW gearbox and not cause any issues for several hundred thousand km's. It is extremely clear they screwed something up, and it's your right to go back and demand they fix it immediately at their expense. If they refuse you can take the bastards to court, they can't get away with this sort of thing.

The longer you delay the harder it will be to get a satisfactory outcome, so pick up the phone and talk to them NOW.

[Esselte]

Well, spoke to the mechanic yesterday, i'd been waiting for him to get back from Tasmania. He's organizing for the guy to inspect it now, waiting for him to be free. He thinks the guy will do labour but i'll have to pay for parts. The mechanic is firmly of the mind that you get no warrantee or guarantee at all for performance work, apparently not evne Garrett have acted on one warranty claim for their high end turbos, because with higher power you can't guarantee anything. The mech's assuring me to just let the guy inspect it and see what happened first. I can't see the guy admitting any liability if he's at fault, becuase it will cost his money for parts. It's a riduculous situation and 700 is no meagre amount of money, even if it is cheap for a rebuild. The performance thing doesn't really apply to my car either as it's been running the same power fine for a year before with that bearing noise.
We'll see what the rebuilder says when he inspects it.

[EldarO]

well, i suppose its a start, at least they're havign a look at it.

the dicks that did my HG repair lost parts, broke parts, and generally made a fuckup of the whole job.

i brought it back after 1000k's, the parts they lost and broke, that i told them to replace, they charged me for, and the air conditioning pipe they snapped off (keep in mind, this is a metal line, that wouldve had to have a massive force on it to break, they told me they needed to get a new pipe made up, and refused to fix it until i paid for it up front.

im going to small claims or some shit, ive had enough of these pricks, and im going to shove my fist up their asses.

fuckers.

Eldar.O.

[Esselte]

Yeah the mechanic seems to be giving the gearbox builder the benefit of the doubt beyond all logic in my opinion. He's suggesting maybe it's because the clutch is so high pressure; but i think an 'as new' R154 can handle a single plate clutch...I just wish i had my old box back, i've actually paid the guy to do damage, i'd rather have my slightly noisy but perfectly working box back and my 700 in my pocket. If its done 1000+ damage to gears or something then i'm really up the creek. It's a ridiculous situation with obviously no accountability at all on behalf of those working on it. Also i'll be pulling the box out myself with a friend after the guy inspects it.

[Esselte]

I'm still waiting for the builder to inspect the box. I waited 3 weeks for him to see the car driving to get an idea of the gearbox symptoms; that didn't happen and he said to just rip the box out and he'll look at it, and i've ripped it out and i'm waiting for him to look now, i can't see it happening.
Can anyone please recommend a gearbox rebuilding shop in Melbourne that's professional and preferably has experience rebuilding R154's?

[StuC]

any place should be able to do it - toyota might be your best bet mate. or even toyospares or whatever. plce like that. But id try toyota and see what they say