Which engine to use.?

[dale30]

Hi All

For those of you that dont know me ..We race an XT130 on the speedway..

We are currently running an 18R but it is no longer competative.Its gone from the front to mid pack So the question is which engine to repower with.
Here are the choices that my sponsor Bruns-Byron Wreckers have.

Early 4AGE ( AE82 88?KW ) ..........one only ( good condition )
2S from ST141 ................. a couple
3SFC Camry/Apollo ...............dozens of these in all variants

I would assume that a 4A rwd gearbox from KE 70 or some as such thing would work.
I have also been led to believe that a 2S from ST141 will fit 3S.

As we run flat out in second gear, no gear changes or slowing down much KW's are not every thing.. usable revs = track speed.
18R is only runnung about 6400 and no power to pull another gear...we need to be able to get to 7000

4AGE must remain totally stock.
2S can have big head shave any cam and any downdraft carby.
3S remain stock except any downdraught carby.

We had a ST141 racing with us a couple of years ago and it was pretty quick.
Will the 3S happily rev.?
What do you all think.

[oldcorollas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine

ST141 2S = 157Nm, but with compression and rast lift fat cam, should be a fair bit better.

3S, less than 170Nm but carby and manifold would help? still cam limited...

comes down to if a modifies 2S, with nasty cam and high comp, and good carb... will be better than a pretty much stock 3SFC... since they are both 2L, i'd be guessing the 2S

the 4A, while it will rev, is torque limited, and nothing you can do about it...

[Adash=P]

Sorry but all those engines besides the 4AGE () are rubbish

The 4AGE is good in light cars like Corollas but the Corona needs something with cubes.

Need a motor with torque. If you can get your hands on a 22R and if the reguations allow it, that would be a good choice.

If your stuck with the choices above, I guess the 2S should do the job and would be the easiest as it RWD already.

[dale30]

Sorry but all those engines besides the 4AGE () are rubbish

The 4AGE is good in light cars like Corollas but the Corona needs something with cubes.

Need a motor with torque. If you can get your hands on a 22R and if the reguations allow it, that would be a good choice.

If your stuck with the choices above, I guess the 2S should do the job and would be the easiest as it RWD already.

Yep the corona is fairly heavy every thing striped out but then full full cage and front and rear bar work.that was my worry with the AGE

Restricted to 2ltr unfortunatly..so 22R wont do.

[dale30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine

ST141 2S = 157Nm, but with compression and rast lift fat cam, should be a fair bit better.

3S, less than 170Nm but carby and manifold would help? still cam limited...

comes down to if a modifies 2S, with nasty cam and high comp, and good carb... will be better than a pretty much stock 3SFC... since they are both 2L, i'd be guessing the 2S

the 4A, while it will rev, is torque limited, and nothing you can do about it...

Thats what i was thinking but 16 vavles and 2 cams is good for revving.
hard decision.!!!

[dale30]

3S-FC 87-91 86.0 mm 86.0 mm 9.8:1 1998 cc 85 kW@5600 rpm 166 Nm@4400 rpm

Thats buckets better than 18R..then add bigger carby and exhaust.?

Will 2S gearbox fit 3S as i was told..

wreckers also has a couple of ST162's as well.

[wilbo666]

18RG not an option? Would be an easy swap and I'd think the mod list you'd be allowed would be quite large?

Assume you have 18R atm?

Cheers
Wilbo

[dale30]

18RG not an option? Would be an easy swap and I'd think the mod list you'd be allowed would be quite large?

Assume you have 18R atm?

Cheers
Wilbo

Hmmm Sore point.!!!

had an RGEU in it for one meeting with a 2" su grafted onto the manifold..had issues getting it rich enough causing backfiring...Bad tempered daughter threw the clutch and gave it a BIG.!!!! rev ( to clear the plugs ) doesnt like not winning !!

Everyone watching over the fence said it was about 9500 for about 5 seconds.
Spun bearings then jumped timing chain.... No money to rebuild.

[old_school_jap1]

i know of a built 21r 2000cc race motor that you may be interested in, cross flow has to be better than the 18r design.

[oldcorollas]

well.. regardless of how good a 4AG is, they are still fairly shit stock, and will be SLOWER than either the 2S or 3S at a given RPM as they have LESS torque

easy for the 4A fanbois to forget that

given that two engine have to stay basically stock, and one can have a stupidly big cam and higher comp.... i kno which i would choose


as you say, 16valves and 2 cams is good for revving
BUT
you can7t change the cams to take advantage of that, so it will fall over at the stock revs of what? 6000rpm? where to stock peak torque is.

the cam/s control the character of the engine. and two choices have stock cams (and one of those is down about 20Nm on the others to begin with!)....

if you could swap cams, then 3S for sure. but with stock cams in 3S, and lumpy cams in 2S......

[dale30]

i know of a built 21r 2000cc race motor that you may be interested in, cross flow has to be better than the 18r design.

HHMMMM..Another thought..

21 head and front go straight on 18.????

Do 21's have decent head..will they rev.???

my 18 is race built so a good head might be easier....

[dale30]

well.. regardless of how good a 4AG is, they are still fairly shit stock, and will be SLOWER than either the 2S or 3S at a given RPM as they have LESS torque

easy for the 4A fanbois to forget that

given that two engine have to stay basically stock, and one can have a stupidly big cam and higher comp.... i kno which i would choose


as you say, 16valves and 2 cams is good for revving
BUT
you can7t change the cams to take advantage of that, so it will fall over at the stock revs of what? 6000rpm? where to stock peak torque is.

the cam/s control the character of the engine. and two choices have stock cams (and one of those is down about 20Nm on the others to begin with!)....

if you could swap cams, then 3S for sure. but with stock cams in 3S, and lumpy cams in 2S......

Will the 2S take constant big revs.??

[oldcorollas]

if you build it to... why not? if it has bucket problems, go shim under or shinless..
rods? get nice bolts...
etc...
depends how much you can change and budget, but.. a high ramp rate, large lift cam will likely get you better mid range as well as better top end, than a dead stock same size motor with a new carby...

try both
get a 3S and put on new carby, race it for a bit, whack it on dyno.. and wile running it, get 2S and get a cam ground.. chuck it on dyno.. see how it goes.

[Rex_Kelway]

Rex knows this is going against the 'fingers in the ears shouting "Toyota, Toyota, Toyota!!!"' theme of this forum but perhaps the wrecker could find you out a Holden 304/308 manual package?

You may have to stick to the same manufacturer, but if not, bang for your buck the simple carb'd V8 would be pretty good. Nice reliable, solid, usable power and replacement/tweaking parts up the wazoo...

[oldcorollas]

can you destroke them far enough?