Toyota Nationals 2009

[Toy77]

well said craig.....

I do think the rain slowed things down alot more than usual....
The social side at the inn was much restrained as you go soaked moving from point to point....

As well as the show... it poured down. i went round with the engine bay judging.... holding the umbrella, and helping write down results etc etc..... it was very difficult out in the wet and cold.... attempting to do a good job - Let alone the poor guys trying to do the exterior out in the rain.... imagine trying to judge panel work in the wet!!!!
And even the interior judging - trying not to fill someones car with water while looking around....

Rather than just saying "i didn't like this or that" come with a suggestion on how to improve it.
If you would like to be involved with the judging - im sure the nationals comitee would be glad of assistance... remember this event is basically put together by 3 people... with a little help from a few others....

I have a few ideas to put forward for the next one myself.....

No trophys is an option.... and im sure alot of people would go for this. I do remember Jo (the year he won everything in the show with his awesome supra) suggest this in order to keep costs down to make the drags more affordable for people.... As this was one of the complaints, of that years event....

I do know that i wouldnt go to the same extent of detailing my car if there was no show trophys.... but i dont think that would detract from the event in any great way - and it would save me alot of hassle (i did wax and grease clean the entire engine bay including the block by hand in the lexus....)

So lets have POSITIVE suggestions to improve the event for EVERYBODY in the toyota scene. If you werent happy with something, voice that for sure - but at least suggest HOW to improve it.....
It is OUR event, its what we make of it!!!

cheers
Stew

[craig28celica]

thanks mate, n back at you..
but all the time n effort i put in2 car, id like the chance of a trophy, thats the point of show n shine, if i dont win i try harder, make it better, or jus go buy my own trophy.
may be to keep it fair to others n save this arguement, jus make it 1 trophy per car? spread the wealth

like stew said, ""It is OUR event, its what we make of it!!!""

[Toy77]

There is a prob with one trophy per car....

I know i wouldnt want the trophy if there was a more deserving car..... reguardless of how many trophys it won.... But i would like to see more different winners....

But that could perhaps be fixed by a rehash of what is awarded - a reduction and diversification of tropys????

Perhaps Justins idea has merit - like entrants choice for all catergories....

For example....

2 entrants get together per sheet (their entrant numbers on the top of sheet)
Sheet is clearly set out....
Favourite exterior
Favourite interior
Favourite engine bay
Favourite overall original
Favourite overall modified
Hatch
Coupe
Ute
Sedan
Sleeper
Race car

Etc....

no points awardd - just favourite (not necessarlily best.... change wording)

Cars clearly marked as to what and where they fit in.... so people arent guessing....

This gives all the trophys back to the entrants.....
2 people per sheet means they need to agree..... rather than just their mates cars.... as well as if we put the people together randomly - get people out of their little groups...

Then people can judge on whatever they like....some people like lots of mods... even if a bit rough, others prefer almost factory, but neatly done... nither is right or wrong - just different. judging criteria is almost impossible to easily sort out...

Cheers
Stew

[JZA70T]

Ok... Before I start, I am not out to have a go at anyone or the event... I have had a great time the last 3 years I have been, and we will continue to attend for many years to come

But...

To quite a fair few of us, it seems incredibly odd that this year there was no call out for judges at the Friday night welcome... It then appeared on the day that most of the judges were people from Newcastle...

Then, lo and behold, a whole heap of cars belonging to people from Newcastle, or those people in the "Newcastle Crew" win most of the S&S awards...

My question is, "Is this coincidence or not?"

I know I am not the only person of this opinion... And I may very well be out of place for assuming that it was a rort, but to someone like me who was only an observer for the weekend, and not part of this almighty "Newcastle Crew" it seems very much the case.

So in your expert opinion, who do feel were the worthy cars that should have received the trophies?

The judges that were asked to do the judging (in the rain) were only doing there job that was asked of them. There were no bias judgments made in any case. The cars that won there class deserved to win and that’s how it has always been done.

Maybe they could have someone like yourself help out and throw your 2 cents worth in to make it appear more fair.

The judges have had extensive experience in the modified car scene. This is evident when identifying cars that have that particular wow factor and attention to the finer details that may be overlooked by someone with less experience

The ALMIGHTY Newcastle crew you speak of, I didn’t think you were having a go at anybody? Hmmmm suppose its nice to think that you feel they are pretty special!! Maybe next year you can do a lil bow or a curtsey for them as they enter the room

In all seriousness we are out there to have a fantastic time as is everyone. So there is no real need to get a lil narky with how things "were" and work on how things may be improved for next years event.

Cheers

N.B. This document is to be used Without Prejudice towards the author. All rights reserved

[Gypsy23]

Hi all, here's the line up for Toyota Nationals 2010
Friday- welcome dinner at 6:30pm (that'll be 3 less beers for Rona)
Sat 9am-12pm Show'n'Shine
12pm-1pm- Lunch
1pm-7-ish- Motorkhana. Scrutineering will be hopefully done at S'n'S (looks at SA ). Daylight saving ends on this weekend so hopefully there'll be no need for lights.
Sunday- Drag racing all day
Sunday Night- Presentation Dinner where trophies for all 3 events will be handed out.

Dubbo City car Club seem to have sorted out the problem they had with Wellington Council, so fingers crossed it works out.
Costing is always an issue but our sponsors help out a hell of alot in these areas, so we'll endeavor to try and keep the costs down, so start saving people just in case!!

[RONA]

Awesome looks like it'll be a great weekend with that Schedule. A much busier weekend by the looks of it with having saturday arvo filled.

Lol at 3 less beers for me, please no-one challenge me to prove that wrong.

[greg]

I read these posts, and one thing keeps reoccuring and that is that most (not all) people wan't to bitch about what may or may not happen.
This event is organised by few for many.
If you wish to help , Im sure the organisers would welcome you with open arms.
If you wish to offer constructive criticism and put forward viable solutions to perceived
problems ,im sure it will be well received.
I had a ball at Dubbo in 2006 and was sorry it took me two years to get back I have booked for 2010 and looking forward to it already.
We should all , put our support behind the people that organise this event and rember it's a fun thing, like beer @ skidz.
cheers greg

[TA22 1MZ]

Danae, that schedule is awesome!! Cant wait for 2010 already.

In response to Greg's comments, completely agree mate. There will always be criticism with an event like this. Its when people dont offer an alternative suggestion/solution where the problems start.

I think Stewy's idea a few posts back about pairing up people to vote on a entrants/spectators choice format would be warmly welcomed by most. Not just that, but you will get a wider spectrum of votes as long as everyone gets involved.

Anyways, we have just under a year to put forward suggestions for 2010's event. Perhaps there is an opportunity for the bigger clubs to get together like Canberra Celica Group, Toymods and the Newy Crew etc... where an agenda could be put forward from each club highlighting new ideas/suggestions for 2010.

I'm happy to put my hand up to help for next years event. Although I do have a pretty full plate, I'm sure there is something I could assist with.

[JustenGT8]

So in your expert opinion, who do feel were the worthy cars that should have received the trophies?

and what's your claim to expertise ??? It's pretty average if you are confused mate as I could name at least 3 other cars there that should have been serious contenders for the trophies given. Here's hoping you weren't a judge as that would be fuel to the fire.

a more useless and inflamatory post to someone's percieved issue has yet to be posted, get over yourself

[Gypsy23]

No flaming necessary Kristel, if thats how you feel well so be it.

The Toyota Nationals is all about getting Toyota owners from as far flung and close places as possible, its all about the socialising, the exchange of information, showing off your car whether its at the s'n's, drag racing or motorkhana or even in the carpark. Its about meeting new people or seeing people you haven't seen since the last Nationals.

Yes this year 'car' numbers were down but we still had the same number of people attend the event, I know coz I had to order pizzas and organise Sunday nights catering. And yep the Newcastle crowd was pretty big, but not all the Newy guys had a car there, they go to support the event and have a great weekend and yep t-shirts were organised but it had nothing to do with us, these were made up for a friends 30th last year and the guy who organised them thought it'd be fun to wear them at Dubbo so the shirts were re-called to have "Dubbo '09" printed on them. I noticed Canberra had shirts and Toymods too (in the past).

Yes you were correct I did forget to call for judges on Friday night, my bad!! I sat up in my room and tried to jot down some notes so as not to forget what I had to talk about whilst ordering yet more pizzas, organising the ice and the couriers to go and get it all and well it slipped my mind, I remember I actually looked around to some of the guys and said 'have I forgotten anything" 'Nah, I think its all covered' is what I got back. Next time if I've missed something, someone yell it out pleeeaasssseee

Consequently at the oval in the morning I'm looking around to see who's there without a car(not too many) I had to ring Joe and get him out of bed as he has judged in the past and well found some Canberra guys as well, we were good to go.

I have no qualms or issue with the judging process as it stands, we looked into this a few years back and discussed it with other clubs to see how they do it, thats not to say it isn't difficult to keep everyone happy coz well its not. As far as we are concerned its a "clean" event, The scoring is final and if as it happened a car wins more than one trophy would it remain a "clean" event if we said, "oh stuff it lets give that trophy to someone else because this car already has a trophy" then hell yes it would be a "rort" and unfair to punish a car or the owner for the time taken to get it this good. This year car numbers were down thats not to say next year it will be huge and we'll have more variety which is always great. We are and will continue to award trophies and the judging process stands.
It is your event so please if you have ideas for different trophies then email us your ideas, we can always add more trophies have fun ones, "blinged out engine bay" biggest stereo, I dunno the possibilitis are endless.

As an event co-ordinator Nationals takes up a few months of my life, but I'm happy to do it coz I love the event and we try to give you all what you want and every year I read all the post Dubbo stuff take in what is constructive and ignore the destructive crap that really is more about someone having a whine on an open forum, as is your perogative.

As far as my celica winning multiple trophies I make no aplogy, we have been showing the car for over 10 years, we've got lots of trophies, all of them hard earnt. I crashed the car in 2001 it was off the road for about 4 years, we had 2 kids so it wasn't high on the list of priorities, but it gave Grant the time to spend on it being the uber engineer that he is, everything has his attention to detail all over it, from the red hex bolts in the engine bay to the endless hours spent gapping and aligning panels !!! So for us its an honour, and a tribute to his fastidiousness. She may not push 300 horsies (only 143.9 as I found out on Sat), or have alot of bling, or even have a monster stereo but she's straight as a die and dead set sexy and classy old girl.

I love it, love the Nationals, love the location, the cars, the people and I hope you all can keep coming and supporting the event. I know its not possible every year as things change in our life but get there when you can and have a great time like we always do.

Well thats my rant in the meantime take it easy and we'll see you all next year.
Cheers Danae Blundell

P.S. Yes all ideas on trophies will be considered, help is always appreciated.

[Yojimbo]

JZA70T did all the tig and aluminium fabrication in my car and also some in the "top engine bay" winner's bay. Has worked in the industry fabricating performance parts, and owns his own mint jza70 with 450rwhp. As much as we like to bag him, he's actaully pretty good at that shit. Being able to make the stuff I assume gives a pretty good appreciation of whats good and whats not.

The only judge this (or any) year with official judging experience would be Phil E, who judges at Summer Nats apparently. He was an 'interior' judge this year. I've spoken with him about judging and I'm not sure that most would agree with his spin on whats hot and whats not. (Of course I love him, Thanks Phil, Cheques in the mail buddy).


Dunno what the solution is to all of this, I greatly enjoyed the weekend, appreciated the feedback incl. the trophies. Sad that people feel like this, I hope the organisers dont take it all to heart, they do a great job, and work hard to provide a weekend for us. Id find it hard not to take all this specualtion personally.

For the record, I am from Sydney, and have been for every Nats Ive known, incl 2003, my first one.

[JustenGT8]

JZA70T did all the tig and aluminium fabrication in my car and also some in the "top engine bay" winner's bay. Has worked in the industry fabricating performance parts, and owns his own mint jza70 with 450rwhp. As much as we like to bag him, he's actaully pretty good at that shit. Being able to make the stuff I assume gives a pretty good appreciation of whats good and whats not.

The only judge this (or any) year with official judging experience would be Phil E, who judges at Summer Nats apparently. He was an 'interior' judge this year. I've spoken with him about judging and I'm not sure that most would agree with his spin on whats hot and whats not.


Dunno what the solution is to all of this, I greatly enjoyed the weekend, appreciated the feedback incl. the trophies. Sad that people feel like this, I hope the organisers dont take it all to heart, they do a great job, and work hard to provide a weekend for us. Id find it hard not to take all this specualtion personally.

For the record, I am from Sydney, and have been for every Nats Ive known, incl 2003, my first one.

I have yet to voice any problem with the judging or the event (only one has that i'm aware of?)....but sorry, that post was beyond arrogant and gets my goat as it's basically an insult to the many others there that worked equally hard. I would have hated to have been a judge as the task to split some trophies would have been very tough.

If JZA70T is Andy then i'm very surprised and he seemed a top bloke and i definitely rate the work he did on your car.....more respect for the others there is all my post was about

[Kristel]

I need to make it clear that I only made my initial post in response to the copious amounts of discussion about the issue on Sunday night after the presentation.

My word choice was poor... And i should have put it in different terms... For that, I apologise, as it seems I have wrongly offended some people.

I understand the hard work (and many, many hours) that go into organising something of this size, and I also understand that you can't please everyone.

All I am trying to do is open a dialogue between those who are disgruntled, and those who were involved in the judging... Nothing more, nothing less. It saddens me that some of the most vocal people on this issue are refraining from having their say in here.

From what I can gather though, most people just wish for some more disclosure and transparency when it comes to the judging and the results... For example, judges shouldn't be able to judge their mate's cars, nor cars they were involved in building.

[river]

Hi,

The results of the Show and Shine usually crops up after each Nationals.

By default, judging displays, is rather subjective and that makes it difficult to keep everyone happy with the final decisions.

To reduce this it is best to have 4 to 6 people who do the judging. In car shows it is nigh impossible to have a judge that doesn't either own a car that is in the show, or know some of the other owners, or has performed work on a car. However, I would assume that they'd judge without prejudice, and having more judges sort of evens things out a bit.

Perhaps in the entry form you can put in a box that the applicant can tick to say they are interested in being a judge.

Also, transparency of the different categories and what is expected from them would help people to prepare their car for a specific category.

It would also be good to have, on the web site, a page that describes what the judges look for and the rankings/weightings of various areas such as originality, engine bay, engine mods, paint, panels, interior, etc. Sure, it all sounds obvious, but having this information available to everyone who enters gives them the ability to see what the judges look for and what they rank in importance.

Finally, the results of all these categories for all the entered cars are made available. This coupled with the intial information not only allows people to see they were judged fairly, but also gives them an indication of what area they were weak in - which gives them something to work on for the next event.

I'm sure there will always be some disgruntled punters, but at least they can be informed of why cars were marked the way they were and it's all open and transparent.

seeyuzz
river

[Gypsy23]

Hi,

The results of the Show and Shine usually crops up after each Nationals.

By default, judging displays, is rather subjective and that makes it difficult to keep everyone happy with the final decisions.

To reduce this it is best to have 4 to 6 people who do the judging. In car shows it is nigh impossible to have a judge that doesn't either own a car that is in the show, or know some of the other owners, or has performed work on a car. However, I would assume that they'd judge without prejudice, and having more judges sort of evens things out a bit.

Perhaps in the entry form you can put in a box that the applicant can tick to say they are interested in being a judge.

Also, transparency of the different categories and what is expected from them would help people to prepare their car for a specific category.

It would also be good to have, on the web site, a page that describes what the judges look for and the rankings/weightings of various areas such as originality, engine bay, engine mods, paint, panels, interior, etc. Sure, it all sounds obvious, but having this information available to everyone who enters gives them the ability to see what the judges look for and what they rank in importance.

Finally, the results of all these categories for all the entered cars are made available. This coupled with the intial information not only allows people to see they were judged fairly, but also gives them an indication of what area they were weak in - which gives them something to work on for the next event.

I'm sure there will always be some disgruntled punters, but at least they can be informed of why cars were marked the way they were and it's all open and transparent.

seeyuzz
river

Thanks River, well said and thanks for the feedback.
Some very good ideas in there
We do use 6 judges, 2 for each category.