AE86 Track Suspension - Recommend me a setup!

[HighLife]

Forgive me for posting another AE86 suspension thread! But I've been given conflicting info from other forums, and the crew here on toymods seem to be a bit more practical based and less "JDM yo!"

Car is currently in the build up phase, its being built for track only(grip), it will not be road registered. Its fully caged(welded in) and will run R spec tyres. The last major piece of the puzzle left at the moment is shocks and springs. I currently have a set of 6kg AJPS rear springs and short stroke KYB Excel G shocks on the rear and standard struts on the front(cut OEM springs just to get closer to the ride height for the moment). I wont be using the Excel G's on the rear, I want to replace them with something else. I may stick with the 6kg springs depending on which way I decide to go.



Originally I decided I was going with a converted front strut coilover arrangement, probably using AGX adjustable shocks and 8kg springs. Then I read a lot of good reviews about the new Greddy Type S gear. Now I am not sure what my best option is? I want flexibility(ie in spring rates and shock dampening) as the car will be an ongoing development project. Budget is also a concern!

So am I better to 'roll my own' or go the Greddy package? Why? If building my own, what shocks should I use? Thanks in advance guys!

[takai]

Spring rates are stupidly high, unless you are running ballooned full slicks.

Roll your own of everything, start around 325/200lbs.

[medwin46]

Jase, cage looks sweet as mate!

Im with Takai, spring rates are WAY too high for grip, the 8/6 combo is more aimed at drifting as it gives such as firm ride and thus can slide easier with no suspension travel.

I personally have 6kg/mm up front, 4.6kg/mm rears, with Koni Yellow adjustables all round. I am yet to tweak the shocks, but have them set mid-range and im sure they'll be more than ample for what i intend to do. However, i think my spring rates are still too stiff, despite what many people will say you do actually need suspension travel! For grip particuarly you want the car to move on the wheels, smooth (ie suspension actually doing something!) = fast.

As for the Greddy kit (with seperate rear spring/shocks with adjustable spring perch) look to be a very good item - apart from the fact that they can not be rebuilt using a shock insert. Not so bad if you have a suspension guru near by, because you'll be able to revalve etc to suit your specific needs, but slightly costly.

If i were you, i'd maybe look at the Greddy items. The bolt in convenience, the adjustable height all round without having to reinforce the rear to fit coilovers, and the quality that is known to come from the brand, i think for the $1300 its money well spent. Add to this (i beleive) you can specify spring rate when ordering, its costing about the same as a DIY coilover setup and a million times better as far as end product! Get in touch with Justin @ Kyouteki (tell him i sent you mate, and that you looked after me when you sold me the 86! He'll cut you a deal!) through here or ae86dc as he is a Greddy stockist!

Personally, i'll be going coilovers on all 4 corners once i complete my IRS rear end conversion, but until then i see no advantage in coilovers in the rear other than height adjustment, and for the live axle rear i think they're (coilovers) a bit too much unusable wank factor.

[HighLife]

Thanks Takai - was thinking spring rates might be too high, but again was getting differing opinions from various peeps. I might look at slightly softer ones to start with then. If I do roll my own - what inserts are the go? AGX, Tokico, TRD (blue, green, yellow, paisley?)

Hey Jesse - cheers mate, very happy with how the cage turned out - got some seam welding around the front end to do then its off to get interior and engine bay painted. Then bolt everything back together! Check it out here if you like: http://halfarsedracing.blogspot.com/

What do you think of the Koni's? How do they compare price wise to the aforementioned inserts? The thing that got me with the Greddy's was the price, if they are just as good as a custom converted set-up then its hardly worth mucking around, plus you get a new stub axle and adjustable strut tops. But I'm now leaning back to building my own!? agghhh!

Yeah not interested in rear coil-overs at the moment.

[takai]

P.s. http://www.plebeians.net/garage/ae86/Spring%20Rates.pdf

This thread here: http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1333

[medwin46]

I cant really say too much regarding the Koni’s as I haven’t tested them enough to have a strong opinion, but I had the same model (Koni Yellows) in my ute and the difference over the KYB was more than noticeable. Although, I do like the ease of adjustment of the KYB AGX’s, whereas the Koni’s you’ve gotta remove to adjust, bit of a pain, but once set they’re sweet!

I paid $500 a pair for mine, both sets short stroke. Fronts were ST185 items and I cant recall what the rears are for, as I just flicked through the book and went “them will do!” haha

If I were you, I’d be tempted by the AGX’s for their ease of adjustment and price (think around $400 a pair?) matched with softer springs. Looking at around $1200 for the setup, plus some camber tops, no change from $1400.

Or the Greddy item for $1300 or whatever they are… I think I’d be choosing the latter, personally.

Just do one thing when deciding mate, IGNORE 99.9% OF ANYTHING SAID TO YOU ON AE86DC regarding suspension, there’s probably 3 members on there with any knowledge, the rest have no idea. Toymods members are knowledgable and are not fully sik jdm biased like said ae86dc wankers….

Good luck, let us know what you end up going for.

[HighLife]

Just do one thing when deciding mate, IGNORE 99.9% OF ANYTHING SAID TO YOU ON AE86DC regarding suspension, there’s probably 3 members on there with any knowledge, the rest have no idea. Toymods members are knowledgable and are not fully sik jdm biased like said ae86dc wankers….

..ahh your just saying that coz they kicked you off!

LOL.. nah I know exactly what you mean!

[MWP]

No normal Koni Yellow, KYB, etc is made to handle those kinds of spring rates.
Matching dampers to your spring rate is super important for good handling.

If you are going to play around with spring rates a lot, i suggest you look at the Koni Racing line of inserts.
They have separate compression and rebound adjusters and will handle a large range of springs (ie, 150lb -> 500lb).

I got the 8611-1259race Konis for my RA28.

[af300e]

LOL, he may have been booted from DC but he speaks the truth.

[Julz01]

Id recommend trd blues 8way adjustables, ive got the standard stroke shocks which are really good , alot of the drift boys use the short stroke ones as well.

They adjustment works really well had it set to 2 which is pretty hard and the back was very stiff, bit to stiff for street but then bumped it down to 4 could feel it was a lot smoother straight away.

[ae86trueno]

Its a very hard question to answer that ultimatly will come down to how much you can afford and how much testing you can do, It will always be a compromise.

I will go from performance/price down
If i had a bottomless pit i would throw on some MCA (proflex) or DMS
then down from there you have your Bilstein,
higher end Koni stuff or TRD ,
KYB then poo

There is lots in between but you get the point, you get what you pay for.
Get the best you can afford.

Now as for springs, your not really going to know until you have driven it,
with the tyres you intend on running, you want to run a spring that is going to get the tyre to the optimum temperature without over heating it, but if your too soft your not going to get the tyre up to temperature, again too hard and the tyre's will do too much work and overheat.

wether on the track or on dirt I spend most of my time making sure the tryes are working at their correct operating temp and at thr correct preassure, as that equals grip there whats holding you to the road.

but Takai has given you a starting point.

Ben.

[HighLife]

Cheers guys!

Ben - I'd "like" to be around the Bilstein performance/price level, but at the moment I'm realistically thinking I'm about TRD/Koni level as I still have lots more to do(ie. spend!) in other areas of the car. So I'm initially budgeting about $2k for springs/dampers.

Doing the sums on whats required for a custom conversion(coil-over kit, strut tops, springs, dampers), tends to make the off the shelf Greddy kit look attractive? I realise that people in the know are saying to make my own - but I am yet to hear why if the Greddy kit is comparable to a custom TRD setup but is bolt in? From the reports I've read the Greddy kit seams to be good - but being reports from the internet I have no idea of the persons background so have to be wary of them. I'm assuming the Greddy kit has enough adjustment to accomodate a range of spring rates.

As you say though - I suppose I wont really know until I "suck it and see"?

[takai]

I doubt the Greddy kit will have enough adjustment at all. it looks to be made to a price, and that price is cheap, which 99.99% indicates that youll end up with bugger all adjustment without rebuilding it.

Given the driftkiddie omgfullyhektik market i would say that their target audience is drifters, and hence will be valved much harder than you will need.

If you were able to use standard inserts in the Greddy units then about $700 wouldnt be a bad price for the fronts, because it will get you a full upright with a coilover conversion etc without you having to source all the bits and chase things down.
Plus you are likely to go through 2-3 sets of coilover springs before you settle on the right rates.

See if you can buddy buddy up with a suspension shop and get them to lend you their springs. Its very rare these days, and i know of only one in Australia who does it, much more common when i was over in the UK. Basically you pay a hefty deposit and they give you a big box of springs, you go off to a track or testing ground for a couple of days and continually play with different spring settings. Once you find the ones you like, you buy them off the shop and they give you your deposit back.
As i said though, VERY hard to find in Aus. Best bet is to start around 325lbs at the front.

[HighLife]

Ok, I think you guys have persuaded me - the Greddy kit, as much as I'd like to try it out and its simple solution, I think there are few too many unknowns, at least with the custom conversion its proven.

Now, to decide what dampers, TRD or Koni? Time to do more research.

[HighLife]

Anyone know what the T3 weld on coil over kit is like?