4AGTE Head Setups

[KOV51]

250 at the treads would be the ultimate goal but id settle for close to that

[roadsailing]

i'm curious to why you think 200kw in a FWD car is a good idea, and i don;t think you have indicated what the cars intended purpose is.

this might slightly go against your grain, but instead of quoting meaningless jargon and parts, why don't you just slap a 4AGZE in the car, find a suitably sized turbo, make an exhaust manifold, stick an aftermarket ECU on and see how you feel about it?

highest powered FWD i have driven was a sss pulsar with 140kw at the wheels, that was pretty horrible!

[KOV51]

i'm curious to why you think 200kw in a FWD car is a good idea, and i don;t think you have indicated what the cars intended purpose is.

this might slightly go against your grain, but instead of quoting meaningless jargon and parts, why don't you just slap a 4AGZE in the car, find a suitably sized turbo, make an exhaust manifold, stick an aftermarket ECU on and see how you feel about it?

highest powered FWD i have driven was a sss pulsar with 140kw at the wheels, that was pretty horrible!

well thanks for your outdated info

I have had 2 corollas with 4agze setups in them first was an ae82 with gze, boost pulley and side mounted intercooler custom headers and exhaust it run 13.97@ willowbank

the other was an ae82 with 4agze with a s15turbo on a custom manifold with microtech ecu and crude water to air cooler setup that run 13.2 @ willowbank so I am doing the full build up this time doing it properly.

your friends car with 140kw must have had shithouse suspension as I had 155 in the ae82 and it was quite well behaved.

[roadsailing]

OK you have done the learning thing already then, carry on!

I will change my input slightly and just say don;t buy parts that you dont need, and read up on backyarder's thread on his mega AE82 build

[KOV51]

where is that write up?

[roadsailing]

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...ght=backyarder

[Grippy]

Gotta love that backyarder, nice ballsy effort, that car was featured in Zoom not long ago.

[IH8TEC]

man there is alot of bs in this thread :S a blacktop is absolutely fine for large boost and high revs in standard from. when me and bazda took his 7agte off an onramp one day running 27psi it got valve float and bent a couple of valves. the ONLY thing been done to it is aftermarket springs.

i'm running 23psi on a completely std bigport 16v head and get 234kw atw still using tvis too haha. i looked into getting a head done.

1mm bigger on intake vavles
shim under bucket
custom billet 280deg cams
porting
heavy valve springs
valve grind
all assemble for i think it was $2050ish.

now i told them i wanna be running 25-30psi, and revving to about 9-9500 MAX. they also mentioned to stick with the bigport for big boost. 20v costs alot more the more you modify it. thats the only reason.

my tuner (tuned his cousins red dx wagon 330+kw atw 4agte 16v) said if i want an easy 30+kw to make a custom manifold (in process) 3inch dp, and some cam gears and 65mm t/b. that will allow him to have alot more timing to play with. and chuck more boost into it. this is without cams and porting and shim under bucket etc etc.

so i suggest to look at the rest of your setup before spending the excess's on the head. although cams would make the job alot easier.

[KOV51]

man there is alot of bs in this thread :S a blacktop is absolutely fine for large boost and high revs in standard from. when me and bazda took his 7agte off an onramp one day running 27psi it got valve float and bent a couple of valves. the ONLY thing been done to it is aftermarket springs.

i'm running 23psi on a completely std bigport 16v head and get 234kw atw still using tvis too haha. i looked into getting a head done.

1mm bigger on intake vavles
shim under bucket
custom billet 280deg cams
porting
heavy valve springs
valve grind
all assemble for i think it was $2050ish.

now i told them i wanna be running 25-30psi, and revving to about 9-9500 MAX. they also mentioned to stick with the bigport for big boost. 20v costs alot more the more you modify it. thats the only reason.

my tuner (tuned his cousins red dx wagon 330+kw atw 4agte 16v) said if i want an easy 30+kw to make a custom manifold (in process) 3inch dp, and some cam gears and 65mm t/b. that will allow him to have alot more timing to play with. and chuck more boost into it. this is without cams and porting and shim under bucket etc etc.

so i suggest to look at the rest of your setup before spending the excess's on the head. although cams would make the job alot easier.

Yeah It was bazdas information that he was telling me about the 2 cars with the identical turbos running 18psi one has 260kw the other has 216kw just difference is bt 20v head vs 16v head.

If its as simple as running a Blacktop 20v head standard with quad throttle body setup then I think I would rather go with a factory head setup cause lord knows its going to be a nicer thing to drive around town than an angry ported, cammed 16v monster.

[roadsailing]

Talk to your tuner about using quads, you might find its far simpler to just run one throttle.

[KOV51]

Talk to your tuner about using quads, you might find its far simpler to just run one throttle.

I understand that alot of tuners may find it difficult to tune the engine effectively but this is the part of the build where I plan not to scrimp.

I have consulted with Carb n Ject and I have seen previous examples of their work and I am going to run an Autronic SM4 complete with data logger dash unit. I am going to get them to spend particular time to the off boost mapping of this enngine so I can retain a good lean cruise map too.

[oldcorollas]

Yeah It was bazdas information that he was telling me about the 2 cars with the identical turbos running 18psi one has 260kw the other has 216kw just difference is bt 20v head vs 16v head.

If its as simple as running a Blacktop 20v head standard with quad throttle body setup then I think I would rather go with a factory head setup cause lord knows its going to be a nicer thing to drive around town than an angry ported, cammed 16v monster.

hmm, 260kw at flywheel and 18psi would be around 7500rpm.
at the wheels with 10% loss = 8100rpm...
what was the 16V head doing wrong? was it's power at the same rpm? same dyno or was one "optimistic"?

as i suggested earlier, go and find some head flow results. there are a few ppl in NZ getting excellent flow out of BT heads, compared to similarly treated small ports. big port has lower port velocity, which is something to consider also. considering the results around the world of small ports, i thought the bigport/small port myth had been busted already?

cams are just there to a) choose rev range in which the engine works, and b) increase VE by increasing valve lift and net open time.

an "angry ported small port" would be a big port right?

[KOV51]

hmm, 260kw at flywheel and 18psi would be around 7500rpm.
at the wheels with 10% loss = 8100rpm...
what was the 16V head doing wrong? was it's power at the same rpm? same dyno or was one "optimistic"?

as i suggested earlier, go and find some head flow results. there are a few ppl in NZ getting excellent flow out of BT heads, compared to similarly treated small ports. big port has lower port velocity, which is something to consider also. considering the results around the world of small ports, i thought the bigport/small port myth had been busted already?

cams are just there to a) choose rev range in which the engine works, and b) increase VE by increasing valve lift and net open time.

an "angry ported small port" would be a big port right?

I guess this was the information I was given and I have no reason for Bazda to be giving my false info they were both stock 4agze 8.9 comp bottom ends and both had the same turbo all tho im not sure which exact model it was. The issue is do I want to run a modified ported 16v head and have the poor drivability that comes with that setup. Or should I go with the blacktop 20v standard setup which I have seen makes the power.
It makes me wonder what the power under the midrange curve was like on the examples.

[oldcorollas]

without dyno curves you will not know.
offboost comes from compression ratio and port velocity.
are the 20v and 16V heads same chamber volume? (only thing i can find quickly says 20V is 2cc lesss, which is not huge.. maybe 0.3 difference?)

216 is a bit higher than cars in aus are getting with those boost levels. 260 is a LOT more.
without knowing the rpm at which that power was produced, the numbers are next to useless. much easier to make power at 9000rpm than 5000rpm.....
i'm not saying NZ dynos are optimistic, but without a curve or rpm info, the numbers mean nothing

i agree with IH8TEC that the difference is basically just cost. there may be a few percent diffference, but that makes more difference NA than boosted.

why do you think that a modified 16V will have poor drivability?
the valves themselves don't add a huge amount more breathing, the difference is in port size and shape. in stock form the difference is muhc more to do with the quad throttle and tuned runner length, than it is with the number of valves... if you are making a manifold, or using trumpets, you can choose what rpm it will be "tuned" for anyway...

[KOV51]

So you understand what I am thinking. I can purchase a Blacktop 20v motor for $1000 and I can get it recod for $350 with a mild cleanup. the engine comes with quad throttles and intake setup and fuel rail and the likes.

If I am to setup the 16v head I need to purchase cams ($800) valve springs ($125) new valves ($300) valve regrind ($250) cam gears ($300) Intake manifold ($1000) Fuel Rail ($200) Throttle Body ($300) to have the performance i am chasing