4AGTE Head Setups

[turbo4agte]

I think his belief that the 20v would be a friendlier street car stemmed from VVT. Which I agree on. A ported and cammed 16v with O/S valves will likely have less bottom end power than the 20v with a properly tuned intake manifold and VVT engagement.

[oldcorollas]

do you really think you ill get the same performance with a standard BT head? are ythe BT pistons/rods up to it?

your prices seem scary. perhaps you can do some of it yourself instead of paying thru the arse?
cams, second hand HKS or TODA (overnight from japan! )
springs, that depends on rpm. if you want to rev to same rpm, then you will need springs for both.
new valves? whats wrong with the old ones?
cam gears.. err... you will probably want to dial in the cams of either head when you are chasing that much power, and $300 is a bit steep.
fuel rail? what is wrong with stock one?
TB.. $300? wtf? it isn't that hard to use a different TB, especially if you are paying a grand for a kustom intake manifold....
heck, for $300 or so, use a T3 manifold adaptor and $200 BT throttles...

you will also need to make a pressure proof plenum if you want to run quads.

I think his belief that the 20v would be a friendlier street car stemmed from VVT. Which I agree on. A ported and cammed 16v with O/S valves will likely have less bottom end power than the 20v with a properly tuned intake manifold and VVT engagement.

ahh.. my bad, i ignored that depending on lift and duration, you may not be able to run the VVTi anyway.
but for turbo, even for the power you are chasing, you may nto need to deviate much from stock cams.... ie, an extra bit of lift to 8.35mm would be nice, but no need for 10mm, and the duration just changes your rpm range (and increases need for VVT to reduce overlap when not revvign the bejeezuz out of it)


edit2: just remember
kw = (engine size x (VE x 100) x (1+ boost) x rpm) / 9402
4A is 150Nm stock, but for higher boost, 90% VE is a good start.
engine size is L, boost is bar or atm

ie, to increase power, you increase either RPM, boost, or VE

edit3: but remember i aint no 4AG expert yet but the practical basics still apply to all engines, and the claims around the world of X power at Y boost vary greatly depending on dyno machine....

[turbo4agte]

I agree that the blacktop will cost a little less in total cost and probably be more street friendly if your keeping the engine within the stock 8k. But as oldcorollas pointed out, your going to need a custom intake plenum for the 20v.

And yes, your prices are way out of wack, and your spending money on parts you might not need.

[KOV51]

Yeah well primarily this is to be a fast street car with occasional track use.
I am trying to build the motor once and doing it properly. I realise heavier valve springs on both heads are a good idea,

Well I shall list the parts and the prices Ive had so far any suggestions where I can get a part cheaper might help as the build is a costly procedure but remember this is a semi show build so old bits sometimes are hard to make look good.

$0 AE92 7rib 4AGZE block and crank (I already have it)
$490 Spool Aftermarket Rods (any others I should be considering?)
$900 ACL Race series Forged Pistons (any others to consider?)
$100 ACL Race series Rod Bearings
$150 ACL Race series Main Bearings
$180 ACL Monotorque Gasket Set
$215 ARP Head Studs
$150 ARP Main Studs
$40 ARP Flywheel Bolts
$115 HKS Valve Springs
$180 HKS 1mm Metal Headgasket
$125 HKS Timing Belt Heavy Duty

IF 16 VALVE HEAD
$300 HKS Cam Gears
$800 HKS Cams 264 or 272 degree 8.1mm lift

IF 20 VALVE BT HEAD
$1000 Black top Engine

Then obviously I have assembly, balancing, ccing etc which ever head I choose.

[KOV51]

Yeah so what sort of cost should a custom inlet manifold cost me to have made?

[oldcorollas]

AE92 rods
AE101 GZE pistons
normal bearings (they shoudn't ever touch except at startup anyway)

you might wanna look at soem curves of ppl with 272's... the rpm range may not be so good if you will be mostly using midrange.


cams and cam gears...
http://search1.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/...ale=0jp&acc=jp
eg, http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m54148530 thats maybe $300 landed in aus..

[KOV51]

AE92 rods
AE101 GZE pistons
normal bearings (they shoudn't ever touch except at startup anyway)

you might wanna look at soem curves of ppl with 272's... the rpm range may not be so good if you will be mostly using midrange.


cams and cam gears...
http://search1.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/...ale=0jp&acc=jp
eg, http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m54148530 thats maybe $300 landed in aus..

Yeah I have a friend over in japan so thats a possibilty but it doesnt say wether they are inlet or exhaust cams.

With running upwards of 20psi of boost the standard gear is reliable?

[oldcorollas]

typically you would just get both with the dizzy drive gear, so you can use either side..

fwiw, it cost me about $80 to send two cams to aus... (HKS 8.1's.. abotu 350 a pair, maybe usually $400ish)

hmm, 30psi is using the standard gear isn't he?

of course if you want the extra insurance, or reduced weight, by all means go for the other pistons/rods... less weight = slightly more efficiency, but nothing an extra psi can't cover up

[KOV51]

typically you would just get both with the dizzy drive gear, so you can use either side..

hmm, 30psi is using the standard gear isn't he?

of course if you want the extra insurance, or reduced weight, by all means go for the other pistons/rods... less weight = slightly more efficiency, but nothing an extra psi can't cover up

Yeah I think I am planning on just using all fresh gear for reliabilities sake as really I dont want to have to strip it down for a repair if I dont have to.

Also the issue I want to know is who can I get a good fwd gearbox rebuild and also to install my Cusco lsd in brisbane?

[Bazda]

Alot of views on both 16v and 20v heads.

I have the flow rates for the std 16v small port head and a std blacktop head.

Blacktop:
Inlet - 210CFM
Exhaust - 140CFM

Smallport:
Inlet - 185CFM
Exhaust - 115CFM

Both with valve lift 0.500

The other cars running the same turbos same engine same ecu same tuner same dyno. The BT head version produced alot more power with 260kw. Where the small port did 216kw at the wheels.

I dont know where it came from that the 20v head unrealiable.. I've been running mine for 2 years now on 27psi, drag and circuit!. Only thing with the 20v head was I had to upgrade the valve springs.

[KOV51]

Alot of views on both 16v and 20v heads.

I have the flow rates for the std 16v small port head and a std blacktop head.

Blacktop:
Inlet - 210CFM
Exhaust - 140CFM

Smallport:
Inlet - 185CFM
Exhaust - 115CFM

Both with valve lift 0.500

The other cars running the same turbos same engine same ecu same tuner same dyno. The BT head version produced alot more power with 260kw. Where the small port did 216kw at the wheels.

I dont know where it came from that the 20v head unrealiable.. I've been running mine for 2 years now on 27psi, drag and circuit!. Only thing with the 20v head was I had to upgrade the valve springs.

Well Baz I think from what I have learnt so far is the Blacktop has different combustion chamber volumes and this changes the compression ratio what pistons would I have to use?

[jeffro ra28]

Yeah well primarily this is to be a fast street car with occasional track use.
I am trying to build the motor once and doing it properly. I realise heavier valve springs on both heads are a good idea,

Well I shall list the parts and the prices Ive had so far any suggestions where I can get a part cheaper might help as the build is a costly procedure but remember this is a semi show build so old bits sometimes are hard to make look good.

$0 AE92 7rib 4AGZE block and crank (I already have it)
$490 Spool Aftermarket Rods (any others I should be considering?)
$900 ACL Race series Forged Pistons (any others to consider?)
$100 ACL Race series Rod Bearings
$150 ACL Race series Main Bearings
$180 ACL Monotorque Gasket Set
$215 ARP Head Studs
$150 ARP Main Studs
$40 ARP Flywheel Bolts
$115 HKS Valve Springs
$180 HKS 1mm Metal Headgasket
$125 HKS Timing Belt Heavy Duty

IF 16 VALVE HEAD
$300 HKS Cam Gears
$800 HKS Cams 264 or 272 degree 8.1mm lift

IF 20 VALVE BT HEAD
$1000 Black top Engine

Then obviously I have assembly, balancing, ccing etc which ever head I choose.

I have just a few comments on your parts list here.

Spool rods are fine for the job There sizing is excellent and will stand up to this task well. Have personally used them before and i was impressed with their pricing and sizing qaulity.

Have you considered the stock pistons? As 30psi 4agte (forum member) is using stock pistons. Consider that option. Otherwise the ACL race series pistons are O.K. There are better however.

You should be able to pick up your mains and rod bearings for much cheaper then that.

ARP main and head studs are a good choice as you have listed them.

I think you will find a set of HKS springs will cost closer to $500 also. If you dont want to spend that much consider "performance springs" which is a forum sponser. They are a good budget qaulity spring. I have personally used them a few times and they have been adeqaute.

Price wise, consider a cometic HG instead of HKS.

Consider a Gates racing timing belt for price. Remember they all do the same job.

Why bother with cam gears? Most well designed cams are ground so that maximum power will be acheived using stock cam timing with stock cam gears. Unless ofcourse you are wishing to shift torque curve, boost response etc.

why HKS cams? CROW CAMS are an Australian company and do a range of grinds for the 4AGTE. Much better priced then a set of wank ass HKS. I have personally used a set with good results.

Just remember, HKS, TODA, TOMEI, etc etc are just parts manufacturers. All they really do is make parts. There are probly a few more budget options to choose from for your parts list that will do exactly the same job.

[30psi 4agte]

Yep at the moment im using std gear.. In the future the only thing ill changes is the rods.

The pistons are almost indistructable ! ...... I hand grenaded a engine a few years back with playing with NOS. Im talking MAJOR detruction to the head hear! ( basicly melted it completely!! - should find more in my rides thread)

Anyhow i pulled the engine down expecting carnage and the bottom end pistons,rods etc were all perfect !

Ill never use anything but the std 4agze piston ....... why would you ?
They are cheap , forged (we have tested em) and ceramic coated .

[Bazda]

Well Baz I think from what I have learnt so far is the Blacktop has different combustion chamber volumes and this changes the compression ratio what pistons would I have to use?

Its only about 2cc different to a 16v head. Which will change the compression a little.
Say if you used 4agze 8.9:1 pistons, then with the BT head on the compression will be 9.3:1.

If compression is to high for you, then you can get the 8.0:1 pistons it will be 8.3:1.
And shave down the head and block to bring it up if wanted. Using a TRD head gasket will bring the compression back up, say a 0.8mm one will bring it up to 8.8:1

Only thing with 8.0:1 pistons, is I have melted a fair few of them now :S, I dont know if the forging is as good as the 8.9:1 pistons.
Most guys here seem to use the 8.9:1 pistons up to 500hp and are having no issues.

I will be using these pistons on my 400kw+ build

[KOV51]

Sounds good so I think the genuine Toyota pistons seem to be the go question is would you bore to 82mm for the extra capacity? also what hedgasket is the one to go for I suppose i will be limited with a 20v head