Are these RTA legal?

[petergoudie]

Yes but why would an engineer take the rap for a few hundred dollars to write out a certifcate for an unknown item. Secondly, the engineer would be further in deep water because that person has to be sure (by testing, manufacturers specs etc) that it is OK, which he or she could not. It's not good enough to just say its OK because you are an engineer. An engineer, as a qualified professional, is expected to have the tools and knowledge to find out if it's OK (and at your expense). Again, in Court, the engineer would be got at as the prosecution lawyer would assume the engineer has some insurance and is more 'valuable' than Mr Stidnam. And remember, what value do you place on an arm, leg, eye or your life?

[petergoudie]

Answer 2 for MOS. OE replacements can only come from the OE manufacturer and in this case, Toyota.

(Special answer for Mos - thanks for your help. My daughter took the Cressida tonight. To remove the nylon housing I had a small length of stainless steel from a windscreen wiper which I ground about a 20 degree taper on it. I pushed it into the connector and it popped off easily. I'm going to try to find if there is a supplier for the single nylon connectors.)

[petergoudie]

Answer 2 for MOS. OE replacements can only come from the OE manufacturer and in this case, Toyota.

(Special answer for Mos - thanks for your help. My daughter took the Cressida tonight. To remove the nylon housing I had a small length of stainless steel from a windscreen wiper which I ground abouta 20 degree taper on it. I pushed it into the connector and it popped off easily. I'm going to try to find if there is a supplier for the single nylon connectors.)

[The Real Roadrunner]

Peter i understand completely what your saying and not actually trying to argue but throwing in a different point of view.

unfortunately in this day and age ppl don't seem to want to spend the money buying good components and are happy to skimp on things (even steering). for instance if someone asks me to do a brake upgrade, the first question i ask is "what brand of disc?". generally it is followed by "RDA, because they're cheaper"... im like ok if thats what you want, they then complain if there is shuddering, runout and premature wear. but what would you expect from something cast in the earth and made from smelted holden 186's?

ppl won't even spend the extra $50 per disc on the only thing that is going to stop them ruining their $30K+ vehicle, but how do you convince them to do so when there are a million ppl on the intahwebs saying that RDA are great?

same with balljoints, why would they spend $50 on a genuine toyota item when they can stroll down the road to a dingy mechanic and get it for $9.

both you and i know which ones we would prefer in our own cars but how do you knock back work in this day and age (not that i don't) with the restictions on p platers in regards to vehicle modifications

sure there are lots of other contributing factors that determine the price of vehicle components but assuming things are made following the same procedure, using the same materials and standards, and same labour cost then costs should. however, this is not the case, parts made in australia using higher quality materials which are then subject to more stringent testing and quality control are going to inevitably be accompanied by a higher price tag than the same component made in another country with lower labour costs, cheaper material, and little or no testing and/or quality control.

my point is that just because something is cheaper doesnt necessarily make it inferior, instead, it is just that a part of its manufacture is cheaper or the company has a lower profit margin resulting in a product that can be delivered to the consumer at a price below the competition.

All you have to do is look at the closing of australian car manufacturing plants due to the influx of cheap overseas made vehicles and the relatively high cost of manufacture locally.

EDIT: got a bit sidetracked before (well leeroy did) and the main focus of my argument was that although its not necessarily fair to assume that all chinese cheap balljoints etc will be inferior, the sad truth is that in the majority of cases they are. the same can be seen with the RDA rotors, all of which i have seen to be not to the same standard as that of DBA, brembo, etc, which is obviously reflected in their prices.

[oldcorollas]

here is the blurb for the original part in question

Outer Tie Rod End
Lowering your vehicle to the point where sparks fly from your chassis might look cool, but the more you slam your car, the more out of whack your suspension becomes. The Ueo Style outer tie rod moves with the suspension, creating the correct geometry for a lowered car. Bump steer is affected when you lower a vehicle on factory tie rods. Ueo Style tie rod ends allow dual adjustments of up to 20mm of toe setting and correction, as well as the ability to adjust the steering angle by 20mm. The pillow-ball mount ends on the Ueo Style tie rod end not only replace the worn factory bushings but also returns bump steer to an acceptable level while increasing the lock-to-lock steering angle. This is a must when drifting.

Details
Weight: 6 pounds
Part Number: XUE0044
Price: $280.00

and here is another

Ueo Style Tie Rod Ends (Outer)

Ueo Style tie rod ends allow dual adjustments of up to 20mm of toe setting and correction, as well as the ability to adjust steering angle by 20mm. Excellent replacement for worn factory tie rod ends. For 1985-1987 Toyota Corolla (AE86) For off-road use.

Price: $365.00

they aren't cheap.. and they are for off-road use (in USA).. so.. methinks they will not satisfy...

i dunno why.. something looks flimsy there

[petergoudie]

I know what you are saying as well. My comments are on the fringe when an accident might have happened and you have to justify your position. The issue is that you probably can't and neither can the importer.

As an example, I've been trying to buy some lengths of steel. A great deal of the steel around is from China but sold at the Australian price. I want the light galvanised steel product that is supoosed to have a minimum thickness galvanising. I ask the suppliers how do they know what thickness it is and they say we tell the Chinese what we want when we order it. I then ask how do they know what they received was what they ordered and they don't know. The situation will be the same for some of the importers of car parts.

In your case you have to clearly advise the purchaser of a possible lower graded product and be careful to ask them do they fully understand what you have said. If you don't they can deny it later on.

However, if there ever was a serious problem later on and you had done what I said above, it still could be concluded that you played a contributory factor and a portion of the blame would be put on you. The realities of life don't count in the instance I've described. Remember, you are supposed to be smarter than your customer as that's why they came to you.

In regard to brakes I knew the guy who started DBA well before DBA ever was in his head. When he started DBA I remember him saying that he was so concerned with quality casting that he partnered 50% of the business to the foundry as they then had the incentive to do the job properly. He started the machining part of DBA. That was a good business decision.

[petergoudie]

P.S. When they say off-road (and as I have said) they mean not for use in a 'public place' where a vehicle has to be registered & insured. It's not off-road in a 4WD sense. This is how you get out of an insurance claim.

[The Real Roadrunner]

This is how you get out of an insurance claim.

and the exact reason why greater than 90% of aftermarket suppliers have exactly that written on the boxes of their parts.

also missed some points out above so ive edited it and added what i wanted to say.

[The Real Roadrunner]

back to those UEO style tie rod ends,

how would they reduce bumpsteer etc, the only thing that they move is the tierod end pivot point and whilst this will change the front end geometry it doesnt move the LCA balljoint down at all. if anything it would probly make bumpsteer worse? havn't measured it but its a fair assumption.

they also mention it will increase "lock to lock steering angle" but i fail to see how it does this without making the rack travel longer or moving the tierod end pivot point closer to the LCA balljoint... me see's a massif fail.

cheers
linden

PS. Peter, what are your thoughts on "rust repairs" to factory firewalls and transmission tunnels? for instance if you were repairing rust and happened to move the middle of the firewall back 4" at the same time would that still be legal?

[petergoudie]

I think it would be a long stretch to convince anyone that a rust repair resulted in moving the firewall 4".

One thing the RTA will do is hold by anything it puts in writing. If you have a query or proposition write to the RTA and get a reply in writing. Explain why the 4" movement happened or has to happen. (Its possible you will have to write twice as the first answer probably won't answer the question fully). Note that I hear there is some discussion that the metal you use must be to the same specification as the rest of the body, however, I think it would be very hard to find that specification.

[rms]

So it is OK for 'rust repairs' to be carried out by anyone, even though large areas may be involved, and to use any old bit of tin, a bit of 'bog' and some black paint.

But move the position and it has to be subject to RTA and engineering approval, and to the same material spec.

Seems to be a double 'standard' there

[The Real Roadrunner]

Seems to be a double 'standard' there

as there is with most things RTA related.
ie the kit car i want to build they wont pass without stupid amounts of expensive testing, but all the regidity tests they want to perform to my 1 off car would have a falcoon or crummydore looking like a twisted up sardine can, not to mention that the afformention cars coming from a dealer won't pass any of the emisions tests that my 1 off car would have to pass to be registered.

meh it sucks but what do you do.

cheers
linden

PS. ex carpenter so the 100mm trick is fairly common

[clubagreenie]

Note that I hear there is some discussion that the metal you use must be to the same specification as the rest of the body, however, I think it would be very hard to find that specification.

Could you use metal from the same model car thus should be same spec, provide receipt for purchase of spare firewall for use for repair purposes.

[af300e]

Surely, once again, you simply need an engineer's certificate? If they will not engineer the alteration, don't do it, or, do it and live with the consequences if they arise.

I'm confused about the LCA's. Show them to an engineer. If the will issue a cert then fit them. If they will not, well, it's up to you if you take the risk.

Or is this not the case?

[1975ToyotaCrown]

Whats RTA stand for.