Truetrac Failure

[brett_celicacoupe]

the next time you wink in a post im going to neg rep you

[blaze86vic]

its written on the intahnet it must be true...

show me how many circuit cars run torsen diffs over mechanicals...drift/time attack/endurance/whatever...

I never said it was a drift setup. It's not for spinning tires, it's to prevent spinning tires. As was stated for all out race cars it's a little different, they tend to use a combination clutch/torsional differential so that when a wheel is lifted it doesn't act like an open diff. There is a reason torsional differentials cost up to 3 times that of an expensive clutch based limited slip, and if it didn't deliver it would have disappeared 20 years ago.

The concept of peak traction with a limited slip is simple. With a torsional differential the correct amount of power is delivered to each wheel, so the effect is you get the most traction from both tires. Obviously if you push the pedal down and you overpower both of them, then you better look good doing it, because it isn't going to go faster.

[22abcdre]

it kind of sounds like it is working properly, and the loss of traction is driver error.

and btw.. you look like a fucktard in that video

Mate what i did i ever do to u? I was simply expressing that my truetrac's behaviour has changed heaps in a fairly short period of time + that it throws the odd one wheel... like it never used to. I built that corona and i reckon its pretty rad, and that vid was a small expression of what my car can do and my skills as a driver. . Your a true dickhead mate

[oldcorollas]

doing doughnuts is not skills, even if your car is rad
toymods does not condone illegal behaviour on public roads.. simple as that.

nothing wrong with your question, but the vid is not required or welcome (imho)

Your a true dickhead mate [/SIZE]

says the guy with an arm out the window doing doughies in an industrial estate

Oh just a quick skid i did in an industrial estate... had a few security guards on my me after

nice one champ
if you wan tto do shit like is in your other videos, then fine.. just don't post links on here.

[The Real Roadrunner]

I never said it was a drift setup. It's not for spinning tires, it's to prevent spinning tires. As was stated for all out race cars it's a little different, they tend to use a combination clutch/torsional differential so that when a wheel is lifted it doesn't act like an open diff. There is a reason torsional differentials cost up to 3 times that of an expensive clutch based limited slip, and if it didn't deliver it would have disappeared 20 years ago.

The concept of peak traction with a limited slip is simple. With a torsional differential the correct amount of power is delivered to each wheel, so the effect is you get the most traction from both tires. Obviously if you push the pedal down and you overpower both of them, then you better look good doing it, because it isn't going to go faster.

id have to call bullshit on that, EVERY dedicated track car i work on runs a clutch lsd for 2 very obvious reasons
1 if your driving your car to ten tenths it requires that you hit ripple strips occasionally (which then causes a torsen to singlewheel)
2 a torsen is NOT consistent from lap to lap which isnt good in a track car at all

any car driven on the limit will have mild wheelspin from the rear tyres and if its not consitently doing the same thing you lose confidence in the car therefore you WILL be SLOWER.

torsens have there place but it wouldn't be in any car that i own (and yes ive driven many a torsen equipped car)

cheers
linden

[whatthe?]

Doesnt look like it's single pegging in this one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GT4K...eature=related

Where's a B Double when you need one?

[MR 1JZ]

id have to call bullshit on that, EVERY dedicated track car i work on runs a clutch lsd for 2 very obvious reasons
1 if your driving your car to ten tenths it requires that you hit ripple strips occasionally (which then causes a torsen to singlewheel)
2 a torsen is NOT consistent from lap to lap which isnt good in a track car at all

any car driven on the limit will have mild wheelspin from the rear tyres and if its not consitently doing the same thing you lose confidence in the car therefore you WILL be SLOWER.

torsens have there place but it wouldn't be in any car that i own (and yes ive driven many a torsen equipped car)

cheers
linden

yeah but what would you know about track racing...




werd

[blaze86vic]

I personally go to track events several times a year, almost everyone there either has or wishes they could have a torsion diff. The only upgrade to a torsion is the hybrid Torsion diff with a clutch diff (that takes care of the wheel spin on the ripple strips). And people really need to quite calling torsion diffs inconsistent. They are very consistent, they consistently give you the best balance of power for the particular situation you are in. So unless you drive the exact same lap with the same exact inputs and the track manages to not be changed by any of the other 15+ cars, it's going to be different. Which in my opinion is a heck of a lot better than having the dang clutches fade and it not work at all.

Some people like clutch diffs for turning because during coasting it doesn't act like an open diff and helps the car through the turn by causing it to oversteer more. This is great for most relatively stock suspension cars because almost all cars are setup to be pretty big plow monsters from the factory. But most race cars and tuners have the ability to configure other aspects of the suspension to cause more consistent oversteer characteristics.

People use what they want based on personal preference, but you limit your options by running only pure clutch or pure torsion based setups. Only a full race hybrid torsion/clutch diff gives you complete adjustability and configuration.

[Wildsupra]

OT but overstiff spring rates are a thing of the past with drifters and people are finally realising that chassis stiffness is more important than whacking the heaviest spring rates you can find in the car...

Are you serious ?!?!? After 5 years i finally fitted stiff as fuck teins to my supra to become an instant drifter....you mean now i gotta pop rivet all the seam welds too.

Fark this is too hard for me......

[MR 1JZ]

Are you serious ?!?!? After 5 years i finally fitted stiff as fuck teins to my supra to become an instant drifter....you mean now i gotta pop rivet all the seam welds too.

Fark this is too hard for me......

seam riveted chassis arent "a drifter thing" they are "a retard thing"

[Wildsupra]

hahaha i cant win......

oh well better join the bandwagon for the next upcoming craze.
Sprinters being cool.... been and gone
1jz cressida's.....been and gone
stiff suss in drift cars.....been and gone
ke70's.......been and gone
mark2's......too late its at its peak

Wots next then?

[The Real Roadrunner]

I personally go to track events several times a year, almost everyone there either has or wishes they could have a torsion diff. The only upgrade to a torsion is the hybrid Torsion diff with a clutch diff (that takes care of the wheel spin on the ripple strips). And people really need to quite calling torsion diffs inconsistent. They are very consistent, they consistently give you the best balance of power for the particular situation you are in. So unless you drive the exact same lap with the same exact inputs and the track manages to not be changed by any of the other 15+ cars, it's going to be different. Which in my opinion is a heck of a lot better than having the dang clutches fade and it not work at all.

Some people like clutch diffs for turning because during coasting it doesn't act like an open diff and helps the car through the turn by causing it to oversteer more. This is great for most relatively stock suspension cars because almost all cars are setup to be pretty big plow monsters from the factory. But most race cars and tuners have the ability to configure other aspects of the suspension to cause more consistent oversteer characteristics.

People use what they want based on personal preference, but you limit your options by running only pure clutch or pure torsion based setups. Only a full race hybrid torsion/clutch diff gives you complete adjustability and configuration.

well if im wrong TRD, KAAZ, CUSCO, Carbonetic, NISMO, TOMEI and ATS must have just wasted millions of $$$$ on developing top of the line componentry for no reason

but hey you must know better than the rest of us

the only thing i find consistent about a torsen lsd on a racetrack is its inconsistency.

cheers
linden

[ivan]

I never said it was a drift setup. It's not for spinning tires, it's to prevent spinning tires. As was stated for all out race cars it's a little different, they tend to use a combination clutch/torsional differential so that when a wheel is lifted it doesn't act like an open diff. There is a reason torsional differentials cost up to 3 times that of an expensive clutch based limited slip, and if it didn't deliver it would have disappeared 20 years ago.

The concept of peak traction with a limited slip is simple. With a torsional differential the correct amount of power is delivered to each wheel, so the effect is you get the most traction from both tires. Obviously if you push the pedal down and you overpower both of them, then you better look good doing it, because it isn't going to go faster.

I never said it was a drift setup. It's not for spinning tires, it's to prevent spinning tires.
Both clutch type and torsion type LSD's are made to achieve this...hence why they are called LIMITED SLIP DIFFERENTIALS.
so that when a wheel is lifted it doesn't act like an open diff
The problem with Torsion is it doesnt work when a wheel is lifted off the ground, hence why we use clutch type, and on a racetrack that happens.
There is a reason torsional differentials cost up to 3 times that of an expensive clutch based limited slip
They may cost a little more but not 3 times the price. If im wrong can you prove me wrong and show me?
if it didn't deliver it would have disappeared 20 years ago
Its a different style of tackling the same problem. One of the benefits of a Torsion is that it does not contain consumables (i.e. clutch disks). This makes it likeable by the motor industry hence why the demand is there. It is also used in some motorsport however you will find Clutch Type alot more favourable because it will give you more consistent results time after time.
the correct amount of power is delivered to each wheel, so the effect is you get the most traction from both tires.
until a wheel is no longer touching the ground and then your screwed...

Ivan

[Sciflyer]

id have to call bullshit on that, EVERY dedicated track car i work on runs a clutch lsd for 2 very obvious reasons
1 if your driving your car to ten tenths it requires that you hit ripple strips occasionally (which then causes a torsen to singlewheel)
2 a torsen is NOT consistent from lap to lap which isnt good in a track car at all

any car driven on the limit will have mild wheelspin from the rear tyres and if its not consitently doing the same thing you lose confidence in the car therefore you WILL be SLOWER.

torsens have there place but it wouldn't be in any car that i own (and yes ive driven many a torsen equipped car)

cheers
linden

You are right about clutch-type being preferred over Torsen for track cars, but wrong about the reasons for it

For a start, a Torsen is a far more consistant than a clutch type LSD, that is part of the reason they are used in road-going cars.
One look at how they operate could tell you that.

A Torsen will not change its behaviour based on temperature, fluid level/condition and wear, all things which can affect a clutch LSD.

Neither is the "one wheel in the air" a valid excuse, as any Torsen produced in the last 10 years has a preload to prevent it going "open" in this condition.

So why clutch-type for the track?

Adjustability - You cant (easily) change the behaviour of a Torsen to suit handling characteristics. Nor can you have different degrees of lockup based on power or coast

Failure mode - Clutch type LSDs typically fail gradually, where the plates wear out. No problem, you have less/no slip limiting effect until you overhaul the unit. You can still drive the car/finish the race. With a Torsen, although one will typically last the lifetime of the vehicle with no maintenance required, if it does fail it goes BANG and its game over. You just lost the race and now you need to buy an entire new assembly as opposed to just replacement clutch plates.

*That* is why Torsens arent common on the track, it has nothing to do with consistancy, durability or behaviour

[blaze86vic]

As a supporting comment for all sides, the type of equipment a person prefers to use is that which makes their driving style improve in their vehicle. Different things work for different people and different cars, and in the end only the stop watch matters.