The Spray Painting Thread

["Z" UTE]

Hi guys,

I need to touch up a section of my rear 1/4 panel, I accidentally got it down to the primer when buffing it as there had been little paint left before the primer on one section.

So it's white in colour and I'll be working with acrylic lacquer paint. How should I go about blending it in once I have sprayed on some paint? What sort of sandpaper should I use and which a block or just by itself?

Any other tips on blend ins?

Wet rub the exposed primer area with 800, and extend beyond that by another 50mm. Mask 100mm or more from the exposed primer. Spray your acrylic colour 25mm past the primer, spray your clear 25mm past that, effectively covering the entire area that has been sanded. Final thing, after removing the masking, (remove masking as soon as posibble after spraying) is to give that entire area a spray with straight thinners, the thinners will "blend" the new acrylic edges to the existing paintwork.

Paint shops stopped selling "blending clear" a long time ago, as the painters had realised that it was simply 2-3% laquer and 97-98% thinners.

Let the paint dry for a couple three days, give it a light cut and polish, apply some wax, and buff lightly.

If the repainted area exceeds an area about the size of an A4 sheet of paper, consider repainting the entire qtr panel, as it will take only a little longer in prep and paint time than doing a touch up on a rub through.


cheers Chuck.

[Z2TT]

Thanks chuck your advice has helped.

Right have some progress.

Sanded with 800 grit and extended 50mm beyond area needing covering. Began spraying, light small coats slightly overlapping waiting a few minutes to flash off before the next light coat, kept on doing it until i got good coverage.

Finish is a little bit rough can notice roughness but not way too rough, little bit of polishing will level it out a bit.

Now at the moment my coats that i did made the paintwork higher at that point than the rest, so will have to do some polishing then bring it back all level.

So i was thinking of finishing with some clearcoat just so it looks glossy like the rest of the paint and not matty but more glossy and reflective. So I was thinking of polishing the paint before putting some clear on, because i dont want under the clear to be able to notice the slightly gritty finish.

But.

My 2 questions are.

1. My Clear I think is Acryllic Enamel, is it ok to put Acrillic Enamel clear over Acrillic Lacquer paint. Not sure if my white paint im using is acyllic lacquer but im sure its acrillic, its the Duplicolour can I got from Auto One from the shelf with all the different ford, holden, toyota paint codes etc.

2. Like I said before, i want to polish the colour coat to get it shiny and not gritty so when I put the clearcoat on it will look good (and not look gritty underneath). But problem is if i level the colour out, won't the clear catch on? or will it still catch on?

So is it possible to get the paint nice and level before putting some clear on, and still be able to have the clear catch on.

Thanks. So far so good hard to notice any gradient differences between the existing paint and the freshly applied paint pretty close the gradient.

["Z" UTE]

Thanks chuck your advice has helped.

Right have some progress.

Sanded with 800 grit and extended 50mm beyond area needing covering. Began spraying, light small coats slightly overlapping waiting a few minutes to flash off before the next light coat, kept on doing it until i got good coverage.

Finish is a little bit rough can notice roughness but not way too rough, little bit of polishing will level it out a bit.

Now at the moment my coats that i did made the paintwork higher at that point than the rest, so will have to do some polishing then bring it back all level.

So i was thinking of finishing with some clearcoat just so it looks glossy like the rest of the paint and not matty but more glossy and reflective. So I was thinking of polishing the paint before putting some clear on, because i dont want under the clear to be able to notice the slightly gritty finish.

But.

My 2 questions are.

1. My Clear I think is Acryllic Enamel, is it ok to put Acrillic Enamel clear over Acrillic Lacquer paint. Not sure if my white paint im using is acyllic lacquer but im sure its acrillic, its the Duplicolour can I got from Auto One from the shelf with all the different ford, holden, toyota paint codes etc.

2. Like I said before, i want to polish the colour coat to get it shiny and not gritty so when I put the clearcoat on it will look good (and not look gritty underneath). But problem is if i level the colour out, won't the clear catch on? or will it still catch on?

So is it possible to get the paint nice and level before putting some clear on, and still be able to have the clear catch on.

Thanks. So far so good hard to notice any gradient differences between the existing paint and the freshly applied paint pretty close the gradient.

Q1. The Duplicolour will be acrylic, as should be your clearcoat. Acrylic Enamel in the true form was a 2Pac paint. What you have is probably acrylic clear. Just do not use Enamel over the top of fresh acrylic, as it will fry big time..

Q2, By all means sand with 800wet before coating with clear. Polishing with compound, will make the paint way too smooth for the clear to key to.

cheers Chuck.

[pac]

as i thought, if it looks like basecote, feels like basecote dries like basecote it probably is basecote

[crowncustom]

1. My Clear I think is Acryllic Enamel, is it ok to put Acrillic Enamel clear over Acrillic Lacquer paint. Not sure if my white paint im using is acyllic lacquer but im sure its acrillic, its the Duplicolour can I got from Auto One from the shelf with all the different ford, holden, toyota paint codes etc.

I'm 100% sure that all colours in spray cans are enamel based not acryllic.
Cheers Brett.

[Z2TT]

Ahh ok, Well the guy at Auto one told me the Dupli Colour cans are Acrillic Enamel (wouldn't think it's lacquer will check tomorrow), will have to find out.

Just wondering what type of paint would have been used to paint my car originally from the factory, just incase i'm using the incorrect type of paint to touch it up with.

What paints can you use over others, and what can't you use over others etc.

Not too sure what's the difference between say just an Enamel (Your home renovating type paints that you buy), then Acrillic Enamel. Or like the difference between Acrillic Lacquer and just Acrillic (or are they all Acrillic Lacquer?)

I thought Enamels and Acrylics were two different paints, so what is Acrylic Enamel?

Will ring the Auto paint shop to find out what type of paint the clear they sold me is, and will have to find out what my 040 White Dupli-Colour is.

I know that lots of paint I used to buy earlier (couple of years ago) from the shop in non cans just tins to use with the spray gun when it was working correctly, it was always acrillic lacquer, but i've been told it's discontinued and replaced with Acrillic Enamel which is apparently tougher but has less gloss. I'd assume all nowdays it's Acrillic Enamel? funny that the auto paint store nearby still sells Acrylic Lacquer when I thought it was discontinued long long ago.

Just like to know whether i'm using incompatible paints so as not to have the surface crack later on or just have bad adhesion.

So I'm going to sand it down with 800 with water slowly until i get it to the level that i want it at, tack cloth to clean all the sanding residue, then put 4 (or more?) coats of clear then go straight to buffing the clear and no sanding (or should i sand if the clear is a bit rough at the end? then buff) Also on can instructions say leave for 5-7 days before sanding/buffing, is it totally necessary or should couple days be ok like you mentioned chuck.

Also, unrelated to my current repairs i'm doing at the moment ----- I am also wondering how do people get their base coat to look so nice on the last coat before they apply their clear (when using a gun not a can i mean on full car resprays), does it just come out very level/smooth off the gun when they got all their settings correct, or do they just all sand it to make it clear. A spray painter told me that sanding just tarnishes the paint and that you should be able to learn how to get it to come nice and glossy off the gun and not gritty so to maintain a good texture so it looks nice and thick, instead of having a gritty finish and having to dull it out using sandpaper which will still be visible when the clear gets put on.

So basically he says you should try to avoid having to sand your basecoat in order to get the best finish in the end by trying to get a good finish to come straight off the gun, and only have to buff the final clear layer that way your base coat will have a "thick" look to it which is what i got told.

But i was thinking if you get a smooth finish from the gun, then when you let it dry and apply the clearcoat the clear won't bite onto it because the finish is too smooth? So you have to sand and ruin the smooth finish?

Oh yeah and here --- http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1985873
Mentions that Acrylic Enamel cannot be wet sanded, true or false?

["Z" UTE]

All of my previous paint advice was based on spraying from a gun using acrylic colour and lacquer, things change when using "SPRAY CANS"

Ahh ok, Well the guy at Auto one told me the Dupli Colour cans are Acrillic Enamel (wouldn't think it's lacquer will check tomorrow), will have to find out. Did he have a paint data sheet to consult or was he just guessing!

Just wondering what type of paint would have been used to paint my car originally from the factory, just incase i'm using the incorrect type of paint to touch it up with. What type of car and what date was it manufactured?

What paints can you use over others, and what can't you use over others etc. Baked enamel, can be refinished with acrylic, however if the enamel is faily new a coat of isolator may be required. Isolator is definately required if you wish to paint enamel over acrylic, as any repair edges will fry.

Not too sure what's the difference between say just an Enamel (Your home renovating type paints that you buy), then Acrillic Enamel. Or like the difference between Acrillic Lacquer and just Acrillic (or are they all Acrillic Lacquer?)

I thought Enamels and Acrylics were two different paints, so what is Acrylic Enamel? The Septics have always been known for bastardising the english language and confusing everyone, this is just another case. Acrylic paint uses acrylic thinners, Enamel uses enamel thinners. The Yanks are probably trying to substitute Enamel for the the word gloss, as every septic knows enamel is the biz.

Will ring the Auto paint shop to find out what type of paint the clear they sold me is, and will have to find out what my 040 White Dupli-Colour is. This should be an Acrylic

I know that lots of paint I used to buy earlier (couple of years ago) from the shop in non cans just tins to use with the spray gun when it was working correctly, it was always acrillic lacquer, but i've been told it's discontinued and replaced with Acrillic Enamel which is apparently tougher but has less gloss. I'd assume all nowdays it's Acrillic Enamel? funny that the auto paint store nearby still sells Acrylic Lacquer when I thought it was discontinued long long ago.

Just like to know whether i'm using incompatible paints so as not to have the surface crack later on or just have bad adhesion.

So I'm going to sand it down with 800 with water slowly until i get it to the level that i want it at, tack cloth to clean all the sanding residue, then put 4 (or more?) coats of clear then go straight to buffing the clear and no sanding (or should i sand if the clear is a bit rough at the end? then buff) Also on can instructions say leave for 5-7 days before sanding/buffing, is it totally necessary or should couple days be ok like you mentioned chuck. Really depends on how wet the paint went on, just remember that "spray cans of paint" are 75% thinners, so it will take a few coats to cover the underlying colour. If you are getting a rough finish, you are pribably holding the can too far away from the job, and the paint is literally drying before it hits the surface. You have dry sprayed, so get to work with the 800. Use detergent like "sugar soap" in your sanding water, and rinse off well with clear water. A tack cloth is only used to pick up the minor lint particles left behind after you clean with wax and grease remover. With the cans, I would not sand the clear coat, but wait a wekk or two before buffing.

Also, unrelated to my current repairs i'm doing at the moment ----- I am also wondering how do people get their base coat to look so nice on the last coat before they apply their clear (when using a gun not a can i mean on full car resprays), does it just come out very level/smooth off the gun when they got all their settings correct, or do they just all sand it to make it clear. A spray painter told me that sanding just tarnishes the paint and that you should be able to learn how to get it to come nice and glossy off the gun and not gritty so to maintain a good texture so it looks nice and thick, instead of having a gritty finish and having to dull it out using sandpaper which will still be visible when the clear gets put on.

So basically he says you should try to avoid having to sand your basecoat in order to get the best finish in the end by trying to get a good finish to come straight off the gun, and only have to buff the final clear layer that way your base coat will have a "thick" look to it which is what i got told. Your final coat of colour should almost be just thinners, this will lay the paint down level, and bring up a reasonable "gloss".

But i was thinking if you get a smooth finish from the gun, then when you let it dry and apply the clearcoat the clear won't bite onto it because the finish is too smooth? So you have to sand and ruin the smooth finish? This is where "flashing off" comes into play, do not let the basecoat sit too long after flash off before applying the clearcoat, and you will not have any adhesion problems. What WILL happen is that the clearcoat will effectively meld into the colour., binding everything together and giving you a single homogenous layer of paint.Oh yeah and here --- http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1985873
Mentions that Acrylic Enamel cannot be wet sanded, true or false?

Hope this helps, cheers Chuck.

[Z2TT]

The Car is a 1987 Toyota Soarer GZ20.

As for dupli-color Auto Spray, gave Holts a ring and they will be ringing me back soon to tell me more about it.

Also the Clearcoat I have, U-Pol brand I called up the paint store I got it from, it's Acrylic Lacquer.

This morning I had a look at the finish, it is quite dusty and seems like it went on a bit too try, I think I can JUST still see the primer under all that paint somehow when i look real closely, it's like not grey but whiteish but like sort of a remnant like an outline.

Been about 20 hours now, I guess i can begin sanding soon (really dont know why 5-7 days is recommended). I'm thinking of levelling it down a bit with 800 and then adding some more color again trying to get it to go on a bit wetter this time holding the can closer, then wait another day before i begin sanding the colour to level it down more.... Then few coats of clear. wait 3 Days after clear then straight to polish.... what do you recon?

Have been reading more about this Acrilic Enamel paint, and haven't been able to find much info but an article somebody has written on Wikipedia says Acrylic is also used in Enamels... I guess this is what Acrilic Enamel is?

To quote - "Acrylic is also used in enamels, which have the advantage of not needing to be buffed to obtain a shine."

["Z" UTE]

My quick internet search, reveals that the YANKS are calling a 2Pak paint Acrylic Enamel. Reading further they discuss the amount of hardener to use! That simply confims that Acrylic Enamel is a 2PAC paint. So yeah, it has come down to terminology.

In 1986 I used a product called DULUX ACRAN, and abreviation for Acrylic Enamel. Yes it was a 2Pac paint.

Looking at a Power Plus touch up can, which is similar to the Duplicolour, it states that the paint is Acrylic. The Holts Duplicolour can makes no mention of the type of paint, but a quick spray tells me it is Acrylic.

A 1987 Soarer may be painted in Enamel, or a base coat acrylic with a topcoat of 2Pac clear. Baked enamel would have been phased out by then. Some manufactures experimented with water based acrylic paint back then as well!

cheers Chuck.

[ian]

its got me confused as to why anyone wants to paint a car with spray cans anyway
you just cant get the stuff to go on properly , its ok for touch ups etc but a whole car .?
ian

[Z2TT]

Ahh thanks for that info chuck... Now that brings me back to a time when i was painting bumper strips on the soarer, The paint shop guy said he'll give me some Acrillic Enamel as it's more chip resistant, I guess that must have been 2Pac after all since i have heard 2pac is more chip resistant so i guess that might be why he told me "Acrillic Enamel" is more chip resistant.

Ian it's just a touchup on a small area.

So if the Soarer is most likely Enamel base, is it ok that I'm putting Dupli-Color Acrillic (would it be lacquer?) over ontop of it?

On Dupli-colors faq It says that Lacquers tend to lift enamel surfaces.

And as for my progress where the primered area was revealed paint went on ok but a bit around it is quite dusty and rough to the touch, looks like loose white dust on there guess that will all need sanding back and then re-add some more colour.

Cheers.

[ian]

sorry
my mistake
for some reason i thought that it was the whole car , it must be time for my medication, if i can remember where it is

["Z" UTE]

Ahh thanks for that info chuck... Now that brings me back to a time when i was painting bumper strips on the soarer, The paint shop guy said he'll give me some Acrillic Enamel as it's more chip resistant, I guess that must have been 2Pac after all since i have heard 2pac is more chip resistant so i guess that might be why he told me "Acrillic Enamel" is more chip resistant.

Ian it's just a touchup on a small area.

So if the Soarer is most likely Enamel base, is it ok that I'm putting Dupli-Color Acrillic (would it be lacquer?) over ontop of it?

On Dupli-colors faq It says that Lacquers tend to lift enamel surfaces.

And as for my progress where the primered area was revealed paint went on ok but a bit around it is quite dusty and rough to the touch, looks like loose white dust on there guess that will all need sanding back and then re-add some more colour.

Cheers.

Acrylic laquer is what has always been recomended for touch ups on Enamel. It is just so much easier. So the duplicolour should be fine. A full panel should be done in the original spec paint. Give the rough stuff a sand and put some more light but wet coats on.

cheers Chuck.

[kremsra28]

Yes - using the 1.4mm tip.

Results of the first coat - the camera isn't really capturing the white color correctly.

It's like a real chalk white. It hasn't got any gloss to it - sounds like I wasn't mixing it correctly. Just been putting the paint and the thinners into the gun pot and mixing until it's even. whoops.

The paint dude said I wouldn't need to use any clear

i know this is a bit late nowm but in futuer reference, i was always told never to mix the paint in the gun pot (unless your using a suction feed or 1 of the new sata guns that are made for it).

in my experience wit acrylic, i have never tried to get good gloss off the gun, aslong as the paint lays on nice even and flat, it will polish great with the proper buffing sequence.

everyones experience is different and i have learned so much from reading this thread from some very experienced painters in which i will use when im painting next,its great to learn from so many different ppl, you can pick the best advice from a whole heap of reference points and put it to use.

keep up the great work guys and keep the advice comming.

krem

[Z2TT]

Just got an email back.

Got told that the U-pol powercan clear i'm using is 1k TPA Acrillic.

Also regarding Acrillic and Acrillic Lacquer differences I got told by the chemist at U-Pol

"The resin base for the Clear Coat is acrylic and these paints are known as clear lacquers
so in most cases acrylic and acrylic lacquer are the same."

I guess then Acrillic and Acrillic Lacquer is the same thing?



Anyway about the Clearcoat, I guess then since its acryllic it's ok to spray over the acrylic dupli-color coat.

Also the other type of clear available i got told is 2k Acrylic.
But I don't understand though how it can be 2k and Acrylic, thought they were 2 different paints. i thought Acrillic uses solvents to evaporate to allow it to cure, and 2k uses a chemical reaction with a hardener, so how can it be a 2k acrylic paint as i got told?

Thanks.