1uzfe mods

[Nim]

I'd suggest you actually drive a 1UZ before making any conclusive statements about its power/torque delivery.

And by drive one I don't mean a stock standard UZS131 Crown.

I mean one that has 'some' work done to the externals.

How it feels isn't as important as actual power delivery. Some cars feel fast, but aren't. This is due mainly to lots of torque but not much actual power.

Have you run a 1UZ up on the dyno? Show me how well it holds it's torque. I think you'll find the torque drops off rather harshly.

[CrUZida]

Have you run a 1UZ up on the dyno? Show me how well it holds it's torque. I think you'll find the torque drops off rather harshly.

Yes, I have put my 1UZ on the dyno many times, but I've never bothered graphing the torque output coz I really couldn't give a flying f*ck how much torque a dyno dynamics thinks I have.

Have a look at the graph on the previous page.
You'll see PEAK torque is 360Nm at 4600rpm, with roughly 300Nm available from almost 2000rpm to redline.

[CrUZida]

Oh, and if you want an approximation of the torque curve of my motor, look at my datalog.
See the black line, that the fuel delivery curve.
For a constant AFR (which it is roughly) the fuel curve will be quite close to the torque curve.

AFR's - http://www.conceptual.net.au/~peewee/dynocomp2.jpg

[Nim]

See, that's nothing like the dyno graphs I've seen. Even with that graph, I'd still rather more power up high. *shrug* whatever. If you don't care where your power is, go do your thing CrUZida, that's fine.

I'm over talking about it. You all seem far too willing to nitpick at whatever I say, rather than actualy trying to understand my point of view.

Enjoy your cars.

[oldcorollas]

See, that's nothing like the dyno graphs I've seen. Even with that graph, I'd still rather more power up high. *shrug* whatever. If you don't care where your power is, go do your thing CrUZida, that's fine.

I'm over talking about it. You all seem far too willing to nitpick at whatever I say, rather than actualy trying to understand my point of view.

Enjoy your cars.

i wish you would stop talking about your honda.... are you driving a toyota yet? do you have a 1UZ? jks

we understand your point of view. HOWEVER, you are talkign about a small 1.8L motor which doesn't have torque down low

you are also talking about a STOCK 1UZ.

your comparison of a holden 3.8L is a pretty crap example

see, what you are not thinking about is a modified 1UZ.. which IS afterall WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT
1uzfe mods

so, now thats out of the way.

what would YOU rather drive? a 1.8L honduh which has a powerband from what? 5000-8000rpm? which has maybe 180Nm of torque and whatever power.....

or a supercharged 1UZ with a powerband from 2000 -8000rpm, and 600-700Nm of torque.

or heck, even a chev 6L from sports sedans, making around 600Nm torque (or more) from 2000-8000rpm.

i think your little honduh would be spanked....harshly...

you say the 1UZ has enough torque down low... it has the same torque up high in it's rev range in stock form also, and the power is somewhat limited by the gentlemans agreement of 280ps (??).
so if you change cams, with the VVTi, and increase rev range to sayy 8000+, you will still have that low down torque down low... and you have the same ball busting torque up high in the same rev range as your honduh.

now you take said 1UZ with VVTi, and you whack on a decently sized twinscrew SC with sayyy.. 18-20psi boost.... lets be conservative and say 800Nm torque...... from maybe 2000-8000rpm..... so bigger rev range than your 1.8, more than 4 times the torque.... you still wanna talk about power?

anyway.. why do you always need to bring your honduh into toyota threads? if you have no toyota content to add.. why post about the honduh?

i apologise to all about this rant, but it tires me to keep reading this stuff....

(edit: and no, i didn't neg rep you either.. if i did, you would know about it )

[myne]

Now now play nice people, there's enough room in this sandpit for the odd honda owner.

I think what he's trying to say is that since the 1uzfe is a V8, nomatter how badly you affect the low end, you're still going to have plenty enough to get by.
It's not going to be as brilliant as it is stock, but it's probably not going to piss you off.

All he's saying is to chuck some lumpier cams in, raise the peak torque a couple of thousand RPM and enjoy the advantages of torque through gearing.

It's the age old formula for NA power, so I'm surprised that you're picking so hard. You have to know what he's on about, he just cant explain it to your liking so you're picking?

Also, to clarify, the B18C engine he's got in his car has a quite respectable torque curve for a 1.8L. Honda's VTEC is implemented in such a way that the engine produces an almost flat torque curve from idle to redline. The "power band" has only about 10%-15% more torque. Power is between 180 and 210hp IIRC.
Not that that matters to anyone here.

And Oldcorolla's you have a disturbingly unhealthy obsession with twin screw superchargers. I propose you GET ONE and get it out of your system before we have to neg rep every post that you mention them in

[RONA]

7MA61, that's fair enough, but I like my revvy engine. You're also mixing things up here. Are you talking track or daily?

Daily I like revvy engines 'cuz they're more economical down low (atleast mine is) and more fun to drive (IMHO).

I'm not mixing anything up down low torque is great for track and a down low car, it means you don't have to punish the car to extract performance and you can hold a higher higher gear through corner with still the same punch to exit a corner.

For a daily a low torque delivery is also good as you can prod along in the highest gear at stuff all speed, and just flex your ankle to bring speed up.

Regardless why we are talking about torque wouldn't a 1uz actually be a far more peaky motor due to its reasonably short stroke . Sure compared to a 4cyl it would have a lot, but say against a BA/BF falcon motor I reckon it'd pack more torque lower in the range.

[oldcorollas]

Really though, how much low end torque do you need? A bit of torque is good for day driving and flattening out your power band, but for going fast, power is where it's at.

Low to low-mid torque isn't very important when talking about going fast. Mid-high to high is, as you're not likely to drop below half your RPMs beyond your inital launch. Also if you can squeeze some more RPMs out of your engine reliably, change your gearing, and move your peak torque up further, it's allways a good idea. It'll give you more power, which is the good stuff.

which is my point, peak power matters more

peak power does not matter more. it matters, but a quick car has more torque everywhere, not just up high. sure more rpm is good, but since your original comment was sparked by the idea of supercharging a 1UZ, and the response was that it's better to have more torque everywhere than just up top..........

anyway... for drag racing, peak power matters more, but for circuit racing and real life, you need to have more than just peak power. more torque everywhere will be good for every situation

for the Austrack example, they ditched a motor with much higher peak power, for a motor with lower peak power, but more torque everywhere, BECAUSE IT WAS FASTER AROUND A TRACK

kw = ( nm * rpm ) / 7112

you sure on that?
i believe it is more like

Nm = (9402 x kw) / rpm
or
kw = (Nm x rpm) / 9402

anyways, Myne hit it on the head with

more torque = higher gearing and less shifting.

i'd still prefer to properly SC a 1UZ than to turbo or just chuck in lumpy cams

yes yes, i know i have an unhealthy obsession, but until i return to the southern half of the world, there's not much i can do about it

[oldcorollas]

Regardless why we are talking about torque wouldn't a 1uz actually be a far more peaky motor due to its reasonably short stroke . Sure compared to a 4cyl it would have a lot, but say against a BA/BF falcon motor I reckon it'd pack more torque lower in the range.

it is same stroke as 3S, but it's not the stroke that makes a motor peaky...

it's the intended rev range that makes it peaky. if you have a small rpm range, you can tune more effectively for all of it (yadda yadda, harmonics and wavelengths and time periods etc), but the higher you make power, the smaller the window becomes, due to all the things you need to do to get the airflow correct in that rev range.
forced induction helps because you are not just relying on 1atm to get things happening, but if you tune a FI motor to do 11000rpm or whatever, you will still have a small window (ie nothing down low) unless you have variable duration/overlap...
the falcadore 4.1 has a looong stroke, so it can't rev out as much so naturally, it has a large window for the power band...

and while we are on falcadore motors, a friend of mine has a turbo 4.1 ford motor. it goes remarkably well on 1 bar boost (stock internals.. running on gas) but is still limited by factory cam to lower rpm (but higher due to FI). do the same to a 1UZ and you will get even better results. the FI will extend the useful rev range, have more torque everywhere and not sacrafice low end as much... compared to a ballsed out NA (like Ed's).. but it will have a different feel to an NA motor....

aaaanyway

Just look at Justen GT8's car its been running 9psi or something to get 320rwkw and is still holding together on a stock bottom end.

and and while i remember, there is a ford 4.1L turbo putting out around 500rwkw (apparently 512rwkw max so far) has forgies, offset ground crank, hemi rods (shorter) and cam.. and a dirty big huffer.... and this is at only 4500rpm!!!! now imagine if you did that to a 1UZ (ie, 27psi )

[RONA]

Just look at Justen GT8's car its been running 9psi or something to get 320rwkw and is still holding together on a stock bottom end.

[Nim]

Blah, at least someone understands what I'm on about. Thanks myne. I was begining to think the world had gone mad.

YES! If I could have a 1UZ with torque from 2000-8000, but find me a supercharger that'll hold that together!
If I had to chose between having my torque between 2000 and 5500 with a red of 8000
OR
having my torque between 4000 and 7500 and a red of 8000, I'd chose 4000 - 7500.

As for the Austrack example, it could be any number of other factors aswell. Was the new engine lighter? Was the new engine more responsive? What kinda driver did they have? Where they having trouble putting down all that power? In which case, YES, lose the power! etc.

If I was gonna add torque to a 1UZ-FE, it'd be between 4500 and 7000rpm, as it already has enough low end torque for me. I wouldn't bother trying to add it below 4500, 'cuz I'm not likely to be down there when I'm trying to go fast, and it already has enough torque between 1000 and 4000. If I could add it to the whole power band, then *shrug*. My point is, why would you add it between 2000 and 5000?

I keep brining up the Honda, 'cuz it's a good example of what I'm talking about. Not a lot of torque, rather a lot of power. Another good example would be a 5S-FE ST184 vs. a 3S-GE ST182... which would you rather?

So, add the torque and power up high on the 1UZ-FE! That's what I'd want.

[RONA]

Centrifugal and whipple style superchargesr would cope to 8000rpm. But you'd have to ask yourself why, even gen 3 commodores with the Whipple lysholm supercharged are making 800Nm of torque by 2500-3000rpm and will rev happily to say 6500-7000rpm , but why would you want to rev any furth if you have 800Nm of torque on tap from 2500-3000rpm. May aswell just plod round in 3rd or 4th gear all day its all you'd need.

[oldcorollas]

lysholm 3300 should be able to provide enough air for a 4L 1UZ, spinning at 8000rpm, to make 29psi. that is probably outside the efficiency range of the SC tho...(the SC max is 13000rpm)

you can get PSI chargers large enough to support 2000hp on 6L motors, so finding something for a little 1UZ should be easy

[mrshin]

Stu, you know I have little fantasies of blown 1UZ's, don't make me get all excited and come out of the closet here...

[gianttomato]

Relax boys, Nim drives a Honda.