1uzfe mods

[manny]

That's Jan's Soarer running the RUSH Soarer Supercharger kit.
The kit actually uses a YellaTerra Terra Charger unit similar to an M90 and manufactured under license to Eaton.

[ed]

Really though, how much low end torque do you need? A bit of torque is good for day driving and flattening out your power band, but for going fast, power is where it's at.

you cant be serious???

please tell me you know what torque is???

[Nim]

you cant be serious???

please tell me you know what torque is???

What is it with people on this forum?

Yes, I know what torque is!

My comment stands. Why would you up the low end power on a 1UZ? It's already got more low end torque than you really need. What you want is to get more of that torque up the top of the power band, where it's usefull.

I should be saying "please tell me you know what I'm talking about???"

P.S.: Oh and thanks for neg repping me just 'cuz you dunno what I'm talking about.

[CrUZida]

My comment stands. Why would you up the low end power on a 1UZ? It's already got more low end torque than you really need. What you want is to get more of that torque up the top of the power band, where it's usefull.

Thats SO not what you said before.

And a supercharger will add top end torque as well as low end torque.

[wilbo666]

What is it with people on this forum?

Yes, I know what torque is!

My comment stands. Why would you up the low end power on a 1UZ? It's already got more low end torque than you really need. What you want is to get more of that torque up the top of the power band, where it's usefull.

I should be saying "please tell me you know what I'm talking about???"

P.S.: Oh and thanks for neg repping me just 'cuz you dunno what I'm talking about.

Bah, keep you peak figure...

Me I'd rather shove as much power UNDER the whole curve as I can
(and shit if there is such a thing as too much torque well tickle me silly, you know the power = torque x rpm thing...work it out from there?)

Cheers
Wilbo

[myne]

more torque = higher gearing and less shifting.

[oldcorollas]

My comment stands. Why would you up the low end power on a 1UZ? It's already got more low end torque than you really need. What you want is to get more of that torque up the top of the power band, where it's usefull.

there is almost no such thing as "more torque than you need".... in that case, you need better tyres

midrange torque is what will help win races, top end is what gets you marginally ahead by the end of a looong straight. but how many long straights are there on most tracks? not many.

midrange torque is what gets you out of a corner faster, without having to stuff around to change gears to make sure you are in powerband.

as an example, in the Austrack sports sedan, Kingmick had said they had a well developed 2.5L turbo, making around 900hp? something like that, BUT they went back to a 6L chev with less power simply because they got a bigger punch out of corners, and that made the car faster around the track, but not necessarily faster down the straight.

just for numbers sake... say you have a 1UZ with 1 bar boost (not outside realms of possibility with stock internals, but maybe pushing it) revving to 6000rpm... conservatively, you would have around 600-700Nm torque.
to get the same effect with gearing, an NA motor would need to be revving to 9000rpm plus to make same tyre forces. a motor peaking at 9000 is not going to have much torque under maybe 5000rpm, but with SC, you could still have around 500-600Nm torque all the way from sayy. 2500-6000 (just for example)... so while you are waiting for your "cam lag" an SC car is gawwwwn.....

as for response. if you have ITB and forced induction (ie pressurised plenum), it is the same as NA, but with effectively higher atmospheric pressure, so the time it takes for air pressure to increase int he ports and cylinder will be marginally smaller for SC than NA.

if the TB is on plenum, perhaps the response will be slightly slower, but not really enough to have much effect. if TB is before SC, then it depends on the volume of the intake tract....
but again for arguments sake, 1 bar on 4L motor is about 4L air per revolution. say you have a generous 10L intake tract (1.3 metres of 4" diameter pipe.. or 2.3m of 3" pipe), then it takes 2.5 revolutions to fill the tract, and another 2.5 to be at FULL pressure. so 5 revs.

at sayyy, 1800rpm (easier for me ) thats 30 revs per second, 1/6th of a second = 0.17s

so even of the TB is BEFORE the SC, ad the SC has to fill plenum and intake tract, it will only take 0.16seconds between you opening TB, and 1 bar boost reaching the ports... thats still pretty good response

[Nim]

Thats SO not what you said before...

It so is!

Really though, how much low end torque do you need? A bit of torque (ED: I meant low end, as I had refered before) is good for day driving and flattening out your power band, but for going fast, power is where it's at.

Obviously you get power from either upping the revs, or moving the torque up HIGH, rather than LOW.

...And a supercharger will add top end torque as well as low end torque.

Yes but manny said:

Peak power figures don't go anywhere near telling the whole story on how a M90 supercharged 1UZ-FE is transformed.

If it's not adding much power up around the power band, where is it adding the power? Down low? Mid range? While that's all well and good, the 1UZ already has rather a lot of torque down low, it doesn't need more. It needs extra puff up high, in my oppinion.

oldcorollas:
Good points. But talk to Stu and Maurice about how little their extra torque helps them against my little atmo B18C2 Integra (although their cars are faster, they are also putting down a decent wack more power to weight than me, which is my point, peak power matters more).

My point isn't that extra torque is bad though, or that supercharging is bad. I'm just saying, I'd rather force more of that torque up high than have it down at 2500rpm... unless your drag racing of course. But in a circuit race, appart from inital launch and pit stops, I wouldn't ever end up down around 2500rpm anyway.

So I'd MUCH rather the SC provide power from 4000 to 7500rpm, than from 2500 to 6000 rpm. Especialy given the 1UZs torque curve (ie, all the torque down low, none up high, at least from the dyno I saw). This would give me decent mid range torque, and good high end torque, rather than a heap of midrange and not much up the top.

P.S. If the driver is having trouble picking the right gears for the corners or shifting while going around, perhaps they need a better driver?

[CrUZida]

but for going fast, power is where it's at.

That is what you said.

you cant be serious???

please tell me you know what torque is???

That is what ed said about it.

you know the power = torque x rpm thing

That is what ed was referring to.

[CrUZida]

It needs extra puff up high, in my oppinion.

And this is based on?
Because you drive one daily?
Because you been in one?
Or because you've read other peoples opinions?

[RONA]

http://www.yawpower.com/tqvshp.html

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

While its all well and great to have a screaming top end, how often do you actually use it. Not to mention for engine longevity I'd rather have a punchy midrange then ringing an engines neck all day long.

Not to mention when on a track the added low down torque may mean you can leave the car in thrid on some tighter bends rather then dropping back to second and then change back up into third only metres out of the corner.

[Nim]

And this is based on?
Because you drive one daily?
Because you been in one?
Or because you've read other peoples opinions?

Based on a 1UZ dyno chart from the dyno day I ran, and their power figures from the net.
As for your other post, you are taking me well out of context. I DID say LOW END TORQUE, then talked about POWER (meaning high end torque, and your RPMs). I do know what power and torque are and how they relate to eachother.

kw = ( nm * rpm ) / 7112

7MA61, that's fair enough, but I like my revvy engine. You're also mixing things up here. Are you talking track or daily?

Daily I like revvy engines 'cuz they're more economical down low (atleast mine is) and more fun to drive (IMHO).

As for racing, being able to sometimes leave the car in third isn't really outweighed by the better power I'd get almost all the other times.

Back to the 1UZ though, for track use, I'd much rather it have the supercharger or turbocharger appling boost high, as from what I've seen, it already has a good low to mid range.

For day driving, I'd rather the 1UZ was atmo, for economy and so I don't chew through tyres. Also I have more fun driving an atmo engine.

[ed]

A bit of torque is good for day driving and flattening out your power band, but for going fast, power is where it's at.

so if power comes directly from torque, please explain how what youve written makes any sense at all

and no, i dont neg rep you

[CrUZida]

Based on a 1UZ dyno chart from the dyno day I ran, and their power figures from the net.

I'd suggest you actually drive a 1UZ before making any conclusive statements about its power/torque delivery.

And by drive one I don't mean a stock standard UZS131 Crown.

I mean one that has 'some' work done to the externals.

[Nim]

so if power comes directly from torque, please explain how what youve written makes any sense at all

and no, i dont neg rep you

If you read above, I explained my comment. And your missing the bit where I set up that I'm talking about LOW END TORQUE as opposed to high end.
Torque is only half the picture. RPM needs to be factored in. 500nm is great, but if you redline at 2000rpm it's kinda sucky and you're not even gonna have as much power as my Integra. You should know this!

Low to low-mid torque isn't very important when talking about going fast. Mid-high to high is, as you're not likely to drop below half your RPMs beyond your inital launch. Also if you can squeeze some more RPMs out of your engine reliably, change your gearing, and move your peak torque up further, it's allways a good idea. It'll give you more power, which is the good stuff.

Lets see an example:
Captain Blogs has a 5500rpm redline 3.8ltr V6. He makes 125kw. His competitor has a 8500rpm redline 1.8ltr inline 4 making 140kw. Captain Blogs has over twice the torque of his opponent. Both engines are in similar cars, and are geared according to their redlines. Who do you think would win in a race? I'm betting on the guy with the Type R engine, and not the commodore POS.

EDIT: Oh, also, how about this for an example. 5M-GE MA61 vs. B18C2 DC2. The Supra has 70kw /ton, and 135nm /ton. The Integra hs 84kw /ton and 120nm /ton. The Supra also has the advantage of RWD. Who would you be betting on in a straight line 1/4 mile drag? Or around a track? Or anywhere?