S13 suspension (front and rear) into MZ11/Ma61 *LCA'S???*

[pisso001]

KE70 should be the same as Ae86.. Good photo there makes things pretty clear..

[Johnzoku]

courtesy of hen and takai posts.

S13
bottom of taper diameter : 17.96
top of taper diameter : 16.08
height of taper : 14.72
ratio : 1:7.83
MX62 - BJ314
bottom of taper diameter : 17.92
top of taper diameter : 15.85
height of taper : 16.71
ratio : 1:8.02
AE86,KE70,TA22,RA40,XT130 - BJ145

takai's figures
Model - Length - CT Dia
RA40 - 300mm - 12mm
TA22 - 300mm - 12mm
AE86 - 300mm - 12mm
KE7x - 300mm - 12mm
XT130 - 310mm - 12mm (RT132 too?)
MX73 - 304mm -12mm
MX62 - 365mm - 12mm
GE Sigma - 330mm - 12mm
S13 - 350mm - 14mm

hen's figures
Car - Length - Swaybar - Castor rod - CT ID - CT OD - CT Length - Balljoint
AE86 - - - -- 300 - 190 - 225 - - - - 12.4 - 16.5 - 59.5 - BJ145
RA60 - - - -- 300 - 180 - 225 - - - - 12.4 - 16.5 - 59.5 - BJ145
MX62 - - - -- 360 - 230 - 270 - - - - 12.4 - 16.5 - 59.5 - BJ314
GE Sigma - 330 - 220 - 250 - - - - 12.3 - 17.8 - 64.5 - BJ122
S13 - - - - -- 350 - 190 - 210/235 - 14.0 - 19.5 - 60.0 - BJ???

The BJ314 balljoint is a good fit in the S13 knuckles and this balljoint is found in many Toyota LCAs (MX62, MX73, MX83, JZX81, MA61 and more) so finding one which is the correct length would be great.

hen

http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...highlight=lcas
also sigma GH LCA's installed into Ma61 by Negative boost
http://www.toymods.net/forums/showth...309#post278309

so, RA40, TA22, AE86, KE70 ETC... look like a good size to use but we just have to change the ball joints and redrill for caster/sway bar mounts.

**EDIT*

according to http://www.oem-products.com/f/PAJA%2...5-Edition1.pdf

MA61, SA63, MX32 - MX73, MZ/GZ10/11/12 are all BJ232's?

[Negative Boost]

**EDIT*

according to http://www.oem-products.com/f/PAJA%2...5-Edition1.pdf

MA61, SA63, MX32 - MX73, MZ/GZ10/11/12 are all BJ232's?

I've got a receipt for BJ314's which i purchased for a MA61. Also mentions in your post that MX62 and MA61's are BJ314's. SA63's should be exactly the same as RA60/6's too and they have a different BJ to MA61's. So i'd hazard a guess that the website is wrong (actually it is wrong, they put SA63 under MA61 and RA6x's, idiots.)

Done an excellent job of putting all that infomation into one post too!

[Johnzoku]

i know that i posted that from earlyer but i got that info off this site,
so i thought id post my findings from that companys data.
i guess there code of bj232 is there bj314...

this is some more info... maybe a winner with the MX73 LCA

http://www.jzxproject.com/bbs/viewto...&highlight=lca

that thread ^^^ was jsut to confirm lenght of MX73 LCA's

The length of an X7 LCA is around 12 inches center to center. . .

SO...

MA61, MX32 - MX73, MZ/GZ10/11/12 are all bj232's or bj314's?

mx73 lca bush - SPF0509K
ma61 lca bush - SPF0509K

mz11 lca lenght = 280mm
mx73 lca lenght = 305mm

might have a winner here to give you close to orginal track with alittle extra without having to change/mod bushes and not have to change ball joints... and maybe not have to redrill castor/swaybar mount holes... but we will have to check that one out soon

[pisso001]

Mate your a legend.. This thread is great.. Wish i read it up to now before i started on my car.. MX73 LCAs sound perfect mate.. Well done. Cant wait till you finish to see how it goes...

Thanks,

Chris.

[Johnzoku]

thanks very much

ill try get them soon to compair them... maybe ill get a chance to head out to a wrecker on saturda... hopefuly.

once its confirmed ill write it up as a proper tech article.

[brett_celicacoupe]

i tried posting on nissansilvia forums with no luck. nobody replied because i wasnt asking how to make my BOV louder

one of you guys should know though.

hi,

ive had a search for this topic with no luck. i searched "S13 S14 coilover difference" but got hundreds of pages.


i just want to know the physical differences between rear coilovers on the S13/S14.

mainly: overall length, overall diameter, top hat mounting pattern and stroke length.

if someone could fill me in or link me to a past thread on this topic then that would be tops


cheers,
Brett

[Johnzoku]

i cant give you excat details atm. but i know for sure that the s13 and s14/s15 coilovers have a huge differance in lenght! the strut top bolts are similar width apart i think, but if your putting them into a celica/supra/soarer you wont be able to use the strut tops.

e.g.

s13


s14

[brett_celicacoupe]

but if your putting them into a celica/supra/soarer you wont be able to use the strut tops.

ill be able to use them, trust me

do you know what sort of length difference there is.

im currently dummy fitting standard S13 rear struts but im open to S13 or S14 coilovers if they come up on ebay for the right price. id like to leave the door opn for both at the moment

[Johnzoku]

are you runnging them as full coilovers with the std. s13/s14 upper and lower mounts?

i'd like to hear/see pics of how your doing that ... i put running coilovers in the rear of a z10/ma61 down to not bolt in enough for this conversion but after this is dead and burried id like to give it a shot.

im running s13 coilovers in mine and they have room to go both up and down in height and they have about 70 ~ 80mm droop. im not sure how the s14's would go but they look ALOT bigger than s13's and you might have to run them with minimal stroke.

i had a look at a few shock web sites and i couldnt find anything+google, so you best bet might be a trip to a nissan junk yard or have a ring around.

but thoes pics do give you a good idea of jsut how much longer the s14 ones are...
s13 and s14 fronts are very close lenght wise (check page 3 i think?) so the rear s14's are huge compaired to the s13's

[Johnzoku]

finally got around to getting some MX73 LCA's and it looks slightly longer (but its wishful thiking) ... see the pic below

Z10
MX73
S12



back to the drawing board... maybe its time to try KE70 LCA's and change the ball joints to the MX71/Ma61/Z10 one.

[Johnzoku]

ok, im finally getting around to finishing this off - will do a full write up and install without all the crap inbetween soon

i think the winner for LCA's are MX83's (thanks to japlish) i did some quick measure ments of both z10 and mx83 ball joints and they seam to have the same taper... but could someone check that for me?

BUMP STEER!!! you get some but your car has to be pretty darn low... like mine

also ill add this little bit of info in as well...

i know i know spacers are for people that can do fitment right but...

so due to my choise in this suspenion set up (s13 gear) and my pick of rims ( 80's style SSR's) i ran into a problem with my set up...

the clearance between the face the rim bolts to the hub and the rest of the rim is at the worst (MK1's) only 5mm... the cleearance between the S13 cailper and the hub face is 10mm min. also add to that the bolts on the rim and it makes fitment a bit of pain... also add to that fact that the rim face is completly flat then it makes it even harder to use conventional bolt on spacers since you need a space the the internal nut and orginal wheel stud to fit into... so you'd have to run 25mm thick spacers for these to work... lame...

so i did some hunting on YAJ and found these... about err... 160 delivered for a pair maybe... will check prices again soon but.




there pretty awesome! you get 15mm bolt on section with 3, 5 & 7mm spacers crossed drilled with 4x114.3, 4x100 and something else, assuming 4x110 as well.

[Johnzoku]

the greeat thing about these is the nut you get with them fits within the 15mm bolt on spacer part.. as pics below show.


7mm spacer sitting on top with bolts in 15mm spacer.



and this is them fitting 4x100 pcd... sweet


thanks.
john.

[Johnzoku]

so... update.

I still haven't gotten around to putting the MX83 lower control arms into my car but...

I've been sliding lately and its become apparent that I had bugger all lock running this set up with the standard MZ11 LCA's, even less than running the standard struts. which confused me a little since the S13 steering arms are a lot shorter than the Z10 steering arms... then a realization was pointed out to me after a drift prac by wilbo... I still had the stock lock stops on the LCA's with I'd forgotten about due to the fact I was searching for a replacement to suit the loss in track from changing to the S13 hubs from the Z10 struts.

so I cut them off and all I can say is AMAZING!

I have so much lock now that the only reason why you would bother to change your LCA's is to stop the inside of your wheel rubbing on the body (I need to take some pics for ya ) (picture your steering the wheel to the right at full lock, the rear of the right hand side tire rubs on the body at that point).

also, when you get just on full lock, the steering binds, you have to fight its slightly to pull it back and its compounded by the tire rubbing on the inside guard as well... weather this is due to the difference in the Ackerman angle of the S13 hubs on the Z10 LCA's OR just running out of steering rack to use... or a combo both.

so after running this set up for so long and sliding on it, racing up and down hills and daily driving duties this is my recommendations.

this is all biased on what ive done so far with S13 hubs on the MZ11 LCA's

1) if you plan on running your car low, your going to get bump steer, my LCA's point up at about 8 ~ 10 degs. Fixing this is rather difficult there's the GP sports Hyper knuckles for around 1500 ~ 2000 bucks a pair, or new ball joints that raise the pivot joint around 10 or 20mm I think... way cheaper but I'm not totally sure if that will help out greatly... might take 5 deg's out at the most.

2) the steering is pretty sweet, id forgotten how it drove before hand until I got my supra and went back and forth between the stock Ma61 suspension and the S13'ed MZ11. more direct and faster on the turn in.

3) the SR20DET brake upgrade works rather well. they slow you down no worries but they do have a tendency of locking up nicely as well... they have pulled my up a few times when I got my self into a spot of trouble.

4) for around $1500, I don’t think this set up could be beat. S13 hub with calipers and disks $300, coilovers $800 max and bits and bobs like rear modified bush $400 at the most. I don’t know many other set ups that would be cheaper installed with a good brake upgrade.

So.. for a lowered car that’s going to do some random sliding and mountain driving, I think this upgrade is awesome, but for something more serious... I think im going back to the drawing board or have a long hard think about where to go from here.

thanks.
john.

[soulfire]

john, nice writeup mate!

as you know, my rona will have mainly sliding / mountain run duties and i'm still at a sore point with suspension...

i am in a position where i can use GH sigma arms (these will provide me with about 3deg of neg camber), extra lock spacer for the steering rack and I was going to build my own coilover (i've got pretty much everything I need minus the threaded section in my shed).

I should also point out that I was going to remove my standard castor arms and convert the front to an s13 setup (much better imo)

The only problem I can see with going to an s13 setup (with the height the car will be at) is that bump steer will kill me. And because of the floating hub setup with an s13, I doubt there is an easy fix for this.

Benefit of modifying what I have for the front, is that I can use RCA's to prop the LCA back to it's proper position.

However, I really like what you have done (as I said previously when I was pullin out that 21r) with the rear coilovers. I will be mimic'ing this setup, as soon as I can find a decently priced pair of rear s13 coilovers. What was your recomendation for the bush size (can't quite remember sorry)

I really need to start making a thread for the ole faithful rt142 and that damn 21/22r that is now assembled and sitting in the engine bay.

Adam