4AGE wont start. No idea what to try next.

[Granto]

Problem: Car wont start.

Setup: 4AGE 16v bigport running a T3 adapter for quads and an EMS Stinger. Running the dizzy/4age coil/EMS igniter. I have the fuel pump hardwired to ignition (just for now) and have a "vac block" that joins up all runners into a small compartment and has outputs for FPR, MAP signal, brake booster etc. I'm using the bigport dizzy for signal and I get RPM reading (250 rpm during cranking, sometimes 500, sometimes 750) however it seems to spike from time to time. The alternator light is currently not functioning, unsure why.

Diagnosis so far: Totally stumped! the fuel pump stays on during cranking. The injectors are injecting fuel, spark is there (yellow/orangeish spark) during cranking it makes noises like it's JUST about to start, but then doesn't. It's run in the past (a few weeks ago now) but hasn't since then. I am fairly stumped and have no idea what it could be. I've tried just about everything I can think of. I've tried different MAPs for the computer, including the one originally on it that has run the car (first thing I did was to save the map originally on it).

I'm ah, just out of ideas of what to try next. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've been thinking it could have something to do with the alternator. It's hooked up correctly apart from the charge light, which I figured hooking it up to IGN on would be a bypass for having the charge light working? (no idea why the charge light isn't working!)

Grant.

Also..

I'm finding that a CA18DET into AE86 was easier than this

[Duk]

Hey mate, I'm no expert on the subject, but get a mate to check your ignition timing when the engine is cranking over on the starter. Also, have you set your base ignition timing?

[DigitalPho3nix]

I don't think the MAP's would have anything to do with it. As long as fuel is going in, it probably should run (although probably really badly).

Check your timing. Perhaps the fuel/air mixture is leaving the cylinder before the spark is there. It might be 'almost' starting because some residual fuel is being ignited?

Do you have spark and fuel in ALL 4 cylinders? Silly question probably, but double check.

Is your alternator hooked up properly?

[DeftAnesthetik]

not sure of this but the three toyota engines i have worked on, both required the charge light to be hooked up in order to function. 4a, 4a bigport, and 4a 20valve. I would be double checking all the electrical, make sure grounds are solid, they are sometimes easy to overlook. Other than that i might think it to be a timing issue as well. I have no experience with quads on a bigport.... yet. (mine are on the shelf waiting for me) but from what i hear they can be a real bugger to get going.

[Granto]

I'll look into it.

i took the dizzy cap off actually! argh. I don't think I touched the rotor button though.

Due to aftermarket computer though, I thought that would take care of the timing?

I had tried different settings, like, locked timing, 12degrees base, 10 base, and using different ignition maps (12,,15, 17, 20, 25 during cranking)

and nothing, doh.

[Duk]

Yeh stuffed dizzy cap and rotor button is something that my MR2 had when I got it, certanly won't be helping your situation. Same for plug leads.
Are you using standard injectors?
What are your settings for cold cranking?

[Granto]

Standard injectors, yes
cold cranking fuel% 45. I've tried changing this setting too. up and down.

I've tested the dizzy as well, (with a multimeter) and it's well within spec.

i guess maybe I upset something inside it, but i'm not sure, i'll check it all out tomorrow.

Grant.

edit:

i'll also get an injector test light if any shop that has one is open, and test all four injectors.. and, i'll test spark on 1 to 4.

Grant.

[Granto]

oh yeh.. i just been going through some data logging n stuff..

i had noticed that i had tried different ignition setups i.e. running at 11, 15, 20, 25, 27..

i had it start recently but it died straight away (but it actually started! heh.).

data log >>

[oldeskewltoy]

the almost starting bit sounds like the distributor is 180 degrees out...... You didn't mention removing the distributor... but the starting problem sounds like thats the culprit

Hmmmm nevermind... see you got it started so 180 out can't be it

[Andrew162]

just thought I'd pitch this in... check rotor button is still good and dizzy cap terminals inside are in good nick and unoxidised. I had a similar cranking problem happen to be, albeit not on a 4A engine, but a 3S instead. still we tried just about everything else to get the bitch going, and ignition sources were the last detail in our efforts. always the way isn't it?

[Granto]

Yeah I didn't take off the dizzy or the rotor button, but I took off the dizzy cap.

(and put it back on)

i'll check the resistance between the dizzy cap terminals and the leads..

[mic*]

Have you got any idea why your spark is orange? Sounds weak...

[Vios-GT_07]

might be a bit far fetched.. but your ignition barrel? could be the "start" bit is working but the "on" bit is wired wrong? ignition relays?

considering u've got fuel and spark i'm thinking electrical..

[Jorrs]

not the starter motor dying is it ?

[BeRad]

i say this on every thread and sometimes it is the problem, how olds the fuel in it...... old fuel will foul plugs almost instantly and will cough and splutter and sound like it will start but it wont....... change it if its old, hi octane fuel etc doesnt last long when its just sitting.

which brings me to ask are the plugs fouled?


another trick that helps an engine start is go to your ignition cranking map and set it to retarded 10 degrees aka -10, this will cause the plugs to spark when the piston is on its way back down, therefore assisting starting, it works every time when someone has an aftermarket ecu and its a poofter to start, this may not be your problem but it will help in the future if its not.

how are the injectors wired up in what order , multi point , batched etc.... are they wired in correctly..

its been said before but is the timing right?....

ill keep thinking, good luck.