ma61/mz10 rear spring adj. perch help.

[wilbo666]

Note my pics are of MZ10.

I'll start with the stock rear upper spring seat.

From inside the boot...


Removed...


Removed...


Looking up from underneath at the area the spring seat was removed from...

Now onto the suspension geometry...


~ ride height (a little higher than ride height I think...)


You can see the very large change in the relationship between the upper spring seat and the lower spring seat in this image...the image is taken approximately from bump stop to fully extended...I don't think I'd like to try and use a 65mmID or similar spring...

I don't think that there is enough compliance! (that is simply my thoughts however...)



And a video that I used to plot the geometry change...


Cheers
Wilbo

[Viper]

Well thats a bitch an a half.
How does the stockie cope with that much movement?
Slack?

[wilbo666]

Well thats a bitch an a half.
How does the stockie cope with that much movement?
Slack?

The distance between the coils is huge so there is enough compliance.



Cheers
Wilbo

[Johnzoku]

thats some nice work plotting that change wilbo!!! + rep for you

this is the thread i saw talking about before showing the problems with running the thread tub on the bottom

http://www.aus12.org/index.php?showtopic=208&st=0

if you scane through that thread youll see what i mean.

larger coils are the way to go. tomorrow night ill measure up and draw in 3D cad what i think is needed to be made.

[Negative Boost]

I wasn't going to get into this topic but...

For a race setup i'd have almost no problems with going the Yannis style custom setup he has going there. Yes its alot of work (what isnt) but it looks like he's got it sorted out (if you read the whole thread) with the side to side spring angles and spring mount locations. The only problem is that he dosnt show what kind of 'flex' is taken up in the spring through the full sweep of the swing arm. But given that i'd only use it for a race setup, the travel would be minimal, especially compared to a road car, and so would the 'flex' being exerted apon the spring from the geometry change. Saying that though, i'd still like to see the geometry change and the effects on this spring/setup although it'd most likely be fine for a race car.

On the road however it seems that to keep the spring working like it was supposed under a full swing-arm arc, and to reduce weird angles and 'stuff' (very technical term) the bigger the coil the better. And therefore i can't see a better, mostly hassel free, solution than those AE86 collars posted above but just suited to the MA61/MZ10 crowd instead.

My 2 cents, just hoped it helped someone.

[Johnzoku]

thats a good point. for race set up i wouldnt be to worried either about coil bind due to setting the car lower than street settings, but if i was going to do race set up then i would look more into a complete rear coilover set up.

with the lower perch idea this allows you to use the standard dia. spring intended for the car. the only problem faced would be finding the right spring to use, weather its a compressed spring, some sort of super low spring, a cut down spring or a shorter spring of a differnt car to compensate for the extra height of the adj. spring perch. Id say a rough quess it looks around a one inch difference on the ae86 set at the lowest possible setting.

[Stefan]

I've never seen anything like that before...

Really? I'm quite surprised.

[wilbo666]

While I was at Fulcrum today I asked about Adj platforms.

Fulcrum can't sell them separately (they only get them in kits?), however they do use similar things on BMWs and Commodores?....

They suggested that contacting Kmac directly might be a good thing to do as Kmac apparently supply some of the kits that have the Adj platforms in them...

Edit: I rang K-mac...I asked to get put through to someone technical...they had never seen what I was talking about ...bah

Cheers
Wilbo

[Negative Boost]

Sounds like a typical response from K-mac. They do make them though yes? As the guy at Fulcrum said so but the stupid guy at K-mac didn't know what you were on about...

[wilbo666]

Sounds like a typical response from K-mac. They do make them though yes? As the guy at Fulcrum said so but the stupid guy at K-mac didn't know what you were on about...

Wilbos version of conversation....

kmac 'technical' guy: "[thick ethnic accent]Hello...useless 'technical' guy speaking, how can I be useless?[/thick ethnic accent]"
me: "I'm looking for [insert my detailed explanation, including cars I believe may use them...]"
kmac 'technical guy': "Sorry I'm useless....no idea, but all I can say is that I'm useless..."
me: "thanks " <beep> <beep> <beep>....

Well that's how I recall the conversation going lol

{note actually conversation may have been somewhat different}

Cheers
Wilbo

[Johnzoku]

hahaha... ive hread that kmac isnt the best when it comes to things like that.

anychance an email to them wouldnt go unnoticed by them?

havent had a chance to go out to my wreck to take some measurements to draw the perch up... hopefully tonight but if not ill have to wait till the weekend.

[wilbo666]

anychance an email to them wouldnt go unnoticed by them?

On the off chance that perhaps the chap reading emails is more savvy than the goose what must have been the workshop I sent them an email after my 'enlightening' [note sarcasm! ] phone conversation

Also just thinking about what you want to do xcedricx...you will still need custom springs unless you make the lower spring seat the complex shape that the factory one is....

The bottom of the stock spring isn't flat...so you will either need to find a spring to fit off something else that is flat on the bottom, or get a spring modified to have a flat base...

Anyway what I'm going to do is look into simply making my own adj platforms to suit 65mm ID springs and I'll go from there with a custom spring

Cheers
Wilbo

[Johnzoku]

sorry to bring this topic back up but im still looking into this and ive stumbled accross this on yahoo auctions, its pretty much what i was thinking/talking about.

http://page9.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/k50386107





so if anyone wants to buy then and make reproductions that would be fine by me