ma61/mz10 rear spring adj. perch help.

[Johnzoku]

After seeing this thread http://forums.celicasupra.com/showthread.php?t=27733 ive been wondering about the rear suspension set that they use there. I agree with the fact that the fronts would not work at all, smaller axels, brakes… etc… but ive read places that rear ae86 shocks fit ma61/mz10 rears as long as there normal stroke and ive seen examples that ae86 springs fit these cars as well.



my question is does anyone know of a place that might make similar spring perches as used on the gready ae86 set that would fit a ma61/mz10? or even something similar that i could modify the spring perch on the diff to suit?
i know ford mustangs use the same sort of set up although with this type of adjustment there springs have a smaller coil at the end to meet the adjustment perch size.

thanks.
john.

[Norbie]

I've never seen anything like that before, but if you can find someone who sells them individually (even if it's not a perfect match for an MA61) I'd be very interested indeed. Group buy perhaps?

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

those types of adjustable rear platforms i've seen on a few bmw's with semi trailing arms. In a couple of datsun Z books i've seen the 510 with the same gear, or the shock mounted style.

Why not just determine the height you desire and the spring rate and get some springs made to suit?

[Johnzoku]

Well that’s what i was thinking just then, if i can track down some off another car that we could use im sure alot of the ma61 drivers could use them.

this would require little to modification at all, compared to using coilovers mounting on the upper and lower shock mounts which need strengthening and customizing of mounts and coilovers.

Even if we cant find a something to use for a decent fit and price, i can always design up on CAD to produce a Adjustable spring perch to suit out needs. Approach a engineering mob and get a group buy price. Although input for the design would be needed, sizes, demissions and materials used.

[Johnzoku]

those types of adjustable rear platforms i've seen on a few bmw's with semi trailing arms. In a couple of datsun Z books i've seen the 510 with the same gear, or the shock mounted style.

Why not just determine the height you desire and the spring rate and get some springs made to suit?

ill look into that, but anything BMX might be exy. (err not BMW not BMX der.)

purely for the adjustment aspect, im going to try running S13 coilovers up front and theres little choice for hight adjustment on the rear.

[wilbo666]

Yeah I'm interested in this, and have been looking into it for a bit!

Let me know what u find...

Cheers
Wilbo

[Norbie]

My long-term plans for rear height adjustment were along similar lines to this, but with a much smaller perch designed for 65mm coilover-style springs. I have the perches and they will be easy to weld onto the control arm, but the upper mount needs to be modified as well and that's where it gets complicated. This is why I'm interested in doing it this way, it would be far simpler!

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

upper mount modding would be a bitch! without hacking a big hole in your chassis, can't see an easy way to get a welder up there

[Norbie]

Yup, the plan was to hack the upper mount off and weld in a new section of plate steel. Definitely not a simple job which is why I haven't attempted it yet!

[Johnzoku]

i was orginally thinking of doing that but i saw the problems you would face with that on a S12 silvia where the guy was getting the spring clashing with the threaded sleve.

but if you mount the sleve to the top mount like this it could be avoided













pics thanks to gsand - ae86 forum.

these seam like its jsut mounted like a normal spring would altho maybe a section of CHS insteead of PVC piping would be better. maybe a steel mounting plate welded to th end of the CHS as well so you distrubitue the load better than the end of the threaded tube stright onto the spring mount.

[wilbo666]

Most of them are pretty shite....


I took the top spring seat out of a spare MZ10 shell I had, I also plotted the geometry etc.

The top spring in the rear is held in by about 6? spot welds that can be drilled out, it isn't that hard, but I'd like to find something that I can move to another shell if I want to.

I was thinking the easiest way would be to use a 65mm ID coilover perch down the bottom as Norbie suggests and get a custom cound spring that fits the upper spring seat and tapers to the 65mm ID lower coilover type adj spring seat.

The adj platform will pretty well be the bump stop as well (there isn't that much room there...)

I'll get some pics up later.

Cheers
Wilbo

[Viper]

I would go the opposite of that, and put the perch up the top, and use the stock seat on the control arm and get the custom spring to fit that.

There is abit on CS about this, ill try and find the link.


http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...=21915&page=10

There we go.


I'll be following the same path i think, but using the stock perch at the bottom.

[Norbie]

I was thinking the easiest way would be to use a 65mm ID coilover perch down the bottom as Norbie suggests and get a custom cound spring that fits the upper spring seat and tapers to the 65mm ID lower coilover type adj spring seat.

That would be easiest, but I like the idea of being able to use generic 65mm springs for easy/cheap suspension tuning. Looking at the above photos though I can see that coil binding could be a real issue with the springs being at funny angles most of the time.

Bah, someone else be the official MA61 guinea pig for a change!

[wilbo666]

I would go the opposite of that, and put the perch up the top, and use the stock seat on the control arm and get the custom spring to fit that.

There is abit on CS about this, ill try and find the link.


http://forums.celicasupra.com/showth...=21915&page=10

There we go.


I'll be following the same path i think, but using the stock perch at the bottom.

Why?

That seems like the hard was to go about it to me....you still need a custom wound spring, and you need to do work to the body of the car (remove top spring seat etc)...and when I show you the pics of the spring arc then you can tell me if you think the chap on celica supra has gone the right way....:S

Another option is to simply shim / space the top of the sping down with large (custom cut) washers!....there are a few other washers

And yeah the bonus of using the tapered (large -> small) spring is that you can ignore the coil binding / really crap geometery!

Cheers
Wilbo

[Johnzoku]

LOL... altho i see the benifits in the smaller dia. coil but i think a standard dia. coil with the larger perch would be the way to go.

i have a link at home ill post later showing how the coil binds.

Why?

That seems like the hard was to go about it to me....you still need a custom wound spring, and you need to do work to the body of the car (remove top spring seat etc)...

Another option is to simply shim / space the top of the sping down with large (custom cut) washers!....there are a few other washers

Cheers
Wilbo

that could be an idea, a very low spring with collars that would be able to be slid in when car is jacked up like nissan sub frame bushes. a complete set with different sized collars for different hights