3sgte Limits???

[Andrew162]

Does anyone know anything about the 'Gen 4' 3SGTE's out of the ST215 Toyota Caldina's, do they run the same block as the Gen 3, or is it a completely new casting? I believe brand new blocks from Toyota aren't prohibitively expensive, so I'm wondering if they would be a better option for someone wanting to build a high HP 3SGTE?

tooch I believe the GenIV 3S-GTE's out of the ST215 Caldina are a VVTi offering mate, so while they may not run the same head, I'm not 100% sure if they'd run the same block.

I'd love to raid a BEAMS engine out of an NZ RAV4 and bring it over here for a tidy conversion in my 162.

edit: Doug, my 3S-GTE into my old RAV4 (and it's rebuilds and rewiring exercise) cost several limbs, some of which I'm regrowing, but others which I'm still paying off.

[-Totenkopf-]

Im getting a 5s/3sgte hybrid built at the moment. I'm using a 5sfe block and crank, block sleeved and bored to 88MM, crank at the standard 91mm stroke. Using custom rods (pauter) and pistons (cp) to keep the rod ratio pretty much the same as the standard (~1.58 as compared to stock 1.6) and still boast of displacement of over 2.2L's. Head will be worked with oversized valves, ported and polished, cams, springs, retainers, shimless bucket conversion, etc.

I can supply more details for anyone who is interested.

I didn't want to risk having a 3sgte block cracking on a ~$10000 engine, so I paid a little extra for a bit of insurance. I intend to hit around 550-600whp on race gas, and hopefully 500 or just short on pump gas. Turbo im running is a garret GT35R.

[jfallen]

Apparently the 503e was the basis for the 3s-gte

Yeah the toysport site has some good information. What I wouldn't give for a 4TGTE , even one of the 18.L. Just to have one.

all hail the power crasied 80's, group B and the 1500hp 1.5LT F1 cars of the day. All the best 1.8-2.1L motors were built between 1983 and 1986.

For the record the 3STGE in the ST215 does NOT have VVTi only the red and black top BEAMS NA motors do. The other oddity of that motor it that hte turbo and exhaust manifold are 1 unit

Cheers
Jordan

[Roundy]

For the record the 3STGE in the ST215 does NOT have VVTi

are u sure?? i always thought it did!

[jfallen]

Right from the horses mouth

There is also information on Toysport and various other sources.

Cheers
Jordan

[4agte]

Thanks guys,

I had not come across that MR2 web site, I would have thought some of their times were quicker for the hp (one made 780rwhp).

Also does having the engine sleeved fix the cracked bore issue permanently? And does it cost only one limb?

Regards
JD

The aw11 group b rally car had one in it aparantly but only made about 2 or 3 rounds iirc because group b was canned tho aparantly not all were 4wd one was rwd

[jfallen]

but you still want one, just like you'd take a porche 959 over the new 911Turbo. the new one is more powerful, (480hp vs 450) has better suspension, handels better, accelerates more smoothly, nicer interior. But it doens't have that sence of aura that the group B cars did.

[Marc205]

I think it's because the Group B cars were an example of the best car engineering could build at the time. Modern cars are hampered by a host of emissions, safety and cost concerns that simply didn't touch Group B. It's lived on somewhat as rallycross (more) but it's not the same. (Of course I'd love a local example of the formula - they used to have a rallycross arena in the Eastern states but it closed down many years ago.)

</threadjack>

[Sharpie]

My brother and I use 3sgte's in our Club Cars and I have never had an engine failure. They are more air effiecient than any other 2L engine on the same engine dyno that we used and make more horsepower per boost than an SR/CA/EJ with the same turbo using a 36mm inlet restrictor.

They are a great engine, no question. Along with the SR they are right up there in my opinion for best 2L twin cam.

[jfallen]

Along with the SR they are right up there in my opinion for best 2L twin cam.

Right Just becasue you can pull power out of a motor doesn't mean it's a good motor. The SR is the cost cutters motor (but like the limited power of the PS2) you spend money engineering around the shortfalls and you'll end up with good results.

My pic (in order) of the 2L twin cams: (production, eg not limited run)
-3M ( out of the 2000GT and it's nissan twin in the Hakasuka GTR back in the 60's, 2L straight 6 twin cams with carburetors, lots and lots of carburetors.)
-Not sure of the name but the motor out of the Lancia Delta Integrale (both 8V and 16V versions)
-YBT/YBD (Serria cosworth motor, never won much in rallys but dominated the circuits in the late 80's early 90's)
-3SG (rally championships in group A)
-FJ20D (first offering from Japan of a DOHC, 16V four banger
FC20 honda's only cool motor
4G63 (rally championships in group A)
Not sure of the name but the motor out of the Lancia Delta Integrale (both 8 and 16V)
-RB20D/1GG (RB is probably a better motor out of the box, but the 1G loves the mods)

[JustCallMeOrlando]

-RB20D/1GG (RB is probably a better motor out of the box, but the 1G loves the mods)

I've never understood people saying this? It makes the same power, is weaker, yet at the same time much physically larger. The only thing it has going for it is aftermarket support.

[o_man_ra23]

I think for an out-of-the-box 4cyl motor, the 3SGTE is a good motor. With small mods, decent every day driveable/fun power can be made. This thread is the first I have heard of the cracking blocks, so I will probably want to look into sleeving if I intend on making more than the 250rwhp which I am currently looking for. The reason I am looking at one is the small size making it easy to work on in an RA23 bay (I hate crowded bays aka 1G in RA23), and the smooth power delivery which the fiance would be able to drive down to the shops with.

my $0.02+gst

Cheers, Owen

[TurboRA28]

I think the 4g63b mitsu 2ltr evo engines would have to be right up there.

I've got a mate with one and seems to make more power than the 3s, smoother also.

But I do like the square bore/stroke of the 3s. The 4g63b length of rods would concern me for a lot of high rpm work.

[5000gt]

anyone have any info on the strength of the black top beams blocks?????

[BeRad]

My brother and I use 3sgte's in our Club Cars and I have never had an engine failure. They are more air effiecient than any other 2L engine on the same engine dyno that we used and make more horsepower per boost than an SR/CA/EJ with the same turbo using a 36mm inlet restrictor.

They are a great engine, no question. Along with the SR they are right up there in my opinion for best 2L twin cam.

in my eyes the 4g63 is the best 2.0 engine a awesome engine capable of big power smooth to drive, strong and responds hugely to mods.

the 2.0 debate has gone on for ages haha, 4g63, 3sgte and then who cares about the rest