3sgte Limits???

[Ben Wilson]

I'm really surprised that the FJ20 hasn't rated more of a mention here. If you ever get a chance to have a look at the ports in one, you'll see what I mean. They are close to the best factory ports I've seen, bigger valves and all is good - For their age, they were awesome.

If fitted with modern turbochargers and injection, they can still stand up to just about anything now.

[BeRad]

agreed, holds a bucketload of power on a std bottom end, big and heavy but for its age is topshelf a mate of mine runs one in a 1600, like shit off a shovel.

[jfallen]

I'm really surprised that the FJ20 hasn't rated more of a mention here.

Made my list it's everything the SR20 should have been (save maybe it's weight) but who are we to complain it was built strong and tuff right from the start. Maybe because it was kind of their first mass market 'hi-tech' motor they didn't watn it to fail so they over engineered it. Pity they are gettign hard to find parts for.

Jordan

[trd3sg]

Im getting a 5s/3sgte hybrid built at the moment. I'm using a 5sfe block and crank, block sleeved and bored to 88MM, crank at the standard 91mm stroke. Using custom rods (pauter) and pistons (cp) to keep the rod ratio pretty much the same as the standard (~1.58 as compared to stock 1.6) and still boast of displacement of over 2.2L's. Head will be worked with oversized valves, ported and polished, cams, springs, retainers, shimless bucket conversion, etc.

I can supply more details for anyone who is interested.

I didn't want to risk having a 3sgte block cracking on a ~$10000 engine, so I paid a little extra for a bit of insurance. I intend to hit around 550-600whp on race gas, and hopefully 500 or just short on pump gas. Turbo im running is a garret GT35R.

that sounds like a well thought out motor mate - good luck with it

you did well to get some custom rods to attain the right rod ratio - id hate to see the mismatch in the revving ability of the 3sgte head on the bottom heavy and limited-revving 5sfe block.

as for the original question, 3sgte = teh winah

non siamese block does not automotically write it off as a potential bomb waiting to go off. It is easier to work with than the (Shudder) sr20 block which is pathetic as a base for performance.

If find it a little ludacris to bring in the issue of oem blocks when talking such high hp figures for a 2litre motor anyway, as most people chasing the big numbers would want to do it reliably. Even if there are motors out there able to support 300kw + at the wheels in oem long block form, they're not gonna be lasting very long under such extreme pressures without SOME form of modification.

[Joshstix]

People aren't talking about stock long blocks they're talking about the structural integrity of the actual block itself. Anything that is done in the way of sleeving etc is really just a band aid fix for an issue that wouldn't happen if a tough enough basic block was chosen.

[jfallen]

unless of course it an Aluminium block

[trd3sg]

People aren't talking about stock long blocks they're talking about the structural integrity of the actual block itself. Anything that is done in the way of sleeving etc is really just a band aid fix for an issue that wouldn't happen if a tough enough basic block was chosen.

i understand what you're saying, but how do you define structural integrity? is it the ability to withstand certain pressures from its original casting, or is it the ability to support upgrades\modifications to the bores, the galleries, the rigidity etc so as to withstand the pressures that a high performance motor will produce.

the way i see it, if the variables involved in the combustion process are controlled at a set level, then it alleviates (if not eliminates totally) the requirement to justify this "structural integrity" you speak of.

In simpler terms, if we ran the same external setup, same duration cams, same static compression ratios, same heads (theoretically) on two different blocks of varying quality\strength, then the signs of weakness can be attributed to the block itself, because ALL other variables have theoretically been controlled.

Only then can you really justify a comment stipulating that the 3sgte block is inferior to the 5sfe block.

[Joshstix]

In simpler terms, if we ran the same external setup, same duration cams, same static compression ratios, same heads (theoretically) on two different blocks of varying quality\strength, then the signs of weakness can be attributed to the block itself, because ALL other variables have theoretically been controlled.

Only then can you really justify a comment stipulating that the 3sgte block is inferior to the 5sfe block.

Bull

I have seen many 3S blocks that are craked on the inner side of bore 2 or three. This is where they pretty much always fail if they are going to fail. This region is solid iron in the 5S other than two steam holes. There is no way the 5S block is going to fail in the same way.

However to play to your theory. When I built my 3S it was built with a 20 thou overbore. It cracked the block running 10psi and making ~210rwkw. I had the block sleeved in number 2 and three and rebuilt it with all the same parts. Once it was rebuilt and run on the same tune it did not fail. When it was then retuned with more boost to run 245rwkw it still did not fail. With the current tune with a different turbo making 290rwkw it still has not failed. To me this is a fair indication that the block was not anywhere near as tough as it needed to be in that region.

[o_man_ra23]

With the 5SFE block, do the 3SGTE internals bolt into this?? Or will the pistons not meet up with the block face?? Also how much work is involved in putting the turbo oil/water cooling lines onto the 5S block?? Might be a good preventative measure to use a 5S block.

Cheers, Owen

[BeRad]

5sfe block is 2.2 litre...... so i doubt it, they use the crank from the 5s for 3s stroker kits.

[Joshstix]

With the 5SFE block, do the 3SGTE internals bolt into this?? Or will the pistons not meet up with the block face?? Also how much work is involved in putting the turbo oil/water cooling lines onto the 5S block?? Might be a good preventative measure to use a 5S block.

Cheers, Owen

3S bore is 86mm 5S bore is 87mm. Deck heights are the same though so the crank and rods could be swapped in with a set of 40 thou over 3SGTE pistons and it would work.

[BeRad]

run oil feed from the oil pressure sender, water from a heater hose or from the oil cooler down on the block. and return it into a stainless radiator pipe or even little bit of metal pipe to weld in a fitting... and a oil return is easy enough....

[o_man_ra23]

sounds promising... might have to look further into that, as there will be a lot of custom fabrication anyway to slot one into the ol RA23.

Cheers, Owen

[trd3sg]

Bull

I have seen many 3S blocks that are craked on the inner side of bore 2 or three. This is where they pretty much always fail if they are going to fail. This region is solid iron in the 5S other than two steam holes. There is no way the 5S block is going to fail in the same way.

However to play to your theory. When I built my 3S it was built with a 20 thou overbore. It cracked the block running 10psi and making ~210rwkw. I had the block sleeved in number 2 and three and rebuilt it with all the same parts. Once it was rebuilt and run on the same tune it did not fail. When it was then retuned with more boost to run 245rwkw it still did not fail. With the current tune with a different turbo making 290rwkw it still has not failed. To me this is a fair indication that the block was not anywhere near as tough as it needed to be in that region.

fair nuff i know what you're saying - my point was that it didnt seem fair to compare an oem block to a modified one if you know what i mean.

still good that you salvaged the 3s block by sleeving it though. Not to shit-stir but do you think the block cracked due to the weakening by the 20thou boring. Even though 20 thou is sweet F.A still couldve struck a chord

[-Totenkopf-]

I'll be running an aftermarket oil cooler, as the angled base plate for the factory oil cooler off the 3sgte doesn't bolt up, and without it, the oil filter would foul on my custom exhaust manifold. I'll use the bungs on the hard pipe that'd originally be used for oil cooler lines to feed the turbo oil cooling. Having a hole drilled and tapped into the block for the oil feed. As the 5sfe block doesn't have oil squirters, I'm getting a thermal barrier compound applied to the piston crowns to assist combat heat transfer through to the skirt/underside.

All going well should be a beast of a motor. I don't expect to have it in car and tuned until mid to late March though.