Ignition prob/missing 2tg - Help please auto electricans?

[poida]

Hey guys,

I have a Ta22 with a 2tgeu engine in my Celica running twin carbs. The car is developing a violent missing problem when i drive it for about 5-10 mins at the same rpm. Its one of those intermittent problems i am having a hard time locating.

The car was just tuned (Carbs, timing, point gap, plug gap) and pulled over 62kw's
I have newish leads
I have new plugs
I have new points
I have a new condenser on the distributor
The coil was replaced a couple of years ago
The top hat is in decent condition but i might replace it just in case
The rotor is in good condition i replaced it a couple of years ago
The motor does not burn oil, seems to be in reasonable condition in general

It seems to be an ignition problem because i lose ignition at times and the car seems to "surge" and it has stalled altogether, and then wouldn’t start for a few mins. After waiting a few mins and jiggling things it seemed to start.

The tacho does not seem to go haywire, something ive seen on other cars that have ignition problems.

All of the wires seem to be in good condition.

I have a thermofan switch wired to the coil.


The only thing I can thing that might be related is that the battery ran flat last time I drove it at night, it wouldn’t start the next day so the alternator might be on the way out. Although my mechanic told me this is unlikely to cause the problems I am having, maybe I am losing volts elsewhere.

I need some suggestions, i rang the mechanic and he said to check some fuses? under the dash? and the ballast resistor on the coil.

I have another dizzy so i might try to change it over.

Any other suggestions?

Cheers

[shelldrake]

for the sake of 15 or so dollars, change dissy cap and rotor. worked for me.

[o_man_ra23]

The top hat is in decent condition but i might replace it just in case
The rotor is in good condition i replaced it a couple of years ago

These should be changed at least each year. My money is on them as the problem.

Also why do you have a 2TGEU running twin carbs?? The E in GEU means that it runs EFI, did you change this, or do you just have a 2TGU and didnt realise the difference??

Cheers, Owen

[sillycar chick]

It seems to be an ignition problem because i lose ignition at times and the car seems to "surge" and it has stalled altogether, and then wouldn’t start for a few mins. After waiting a few mins and jiggling things it seemed to start.

I have a thermofan switch wired to the coil.

The only thing I can thing that might be related is that the battery ran flat last time I drove it at night, it wouldn’t start the next day so the alternator might be on the way out. Although my mechanic told me this is unlikely to cause the problems I am having, maybe I am losing volts elsewhere.

I need some suggestions, i rang the mechanic and he said to check some fuses? under the dash? and the ballast resistor on the coil.

I have another dizzy so i might try to change it over.

Any other suggestions?

Cheers

Hey,
Sounds to me like you have some wiring problems going on there....

For starters, having things like thermofan switches wired up to your coil, thats just asking for trouble (I have been having this same problem on my '22 from the previous owner...)

I dont know a great deal on wiring (to tell you the truth I HATE wires!), but ive had similar problems before that you are having now.

So the best advice I can give is to eliminate every possibility one by one (ie. change your rotor and dizzy cap will at least eliminate them off the list etc.) and I would be getting in there and checking out all the wiring... If you arent all that confident like me ( I know enough to get by, but I get stuck when i have to find intermittent problems like this), then best bet may very well be to find yourself a decent auto electrician. I know they can be expensive, but if you find one that will do cash in hand jobs on the side, youre set!

Good luck, let us know how it goes.
Dana

[o_man_ra23]

Hey,
Sounds to me like you have some wiring problems going on there....

For starters, having things like thermofan switches wired up to your coil, thats just asking for trouble (I have been having this same problem on my '22 from the previous owner...)

I skipped through the bit about the thermo fan being switched from the coil. I would agree that this is asking for trouble. I would even think that this might well blow the engine fuse.

Changing things willy nilly like Dana sed is one way of doing things, but you can find that you will change everything and your problem is elsewhere anyway. I would start by re-wiring the thermofan, and then look to find the problem.

Cheers, Owen

[poida]

These should be changed at least each year. My money is on them as the problem.

Also why do you have a 2TGEU running twin carbs?? The E in GEU means that it runs EFI, did you change this, or do you just have a 2TGU and didnt realise the difference??

Cheers, Owen

Cheers, i will change both of these. Should have been a bit clearer, it is a 2tgeu engine retro-fitted with twin carbs, although from memory both of these engines run a points dizzy. One thing i noticed when i bought this engine was that it had a slightly different dizzy and there was no condensor on it. It had no spark untill i attached it from my previous motor.

I skipped through the bit about the thermo fan being switched from the coil. I would agree that this is asking for trouble. I would even think that this might well blow the engine fuse.

Changing things willy nilly like Dana sed is one way of doing things, but you can find that you will change everything and your problem is elsewhere anyway. I would start by re-wiring the thermofan, and then look to find the problem.

Cheers, Owen

Yeah i spoke to my mate yesterday and he also suggested to wire the switch elsewhere, although this is the way its always been and hasnt caused any issues ever. Although with age maybe things are getting a little weaker and the swtich could be draining too much current.

To the shops i go....

Cheers

[poida]

Ok so I got a new rotor and dizzy cap. I also got a ballast resistor that is connected has a bracket mounting it to the coil. Now from what I can see, the fuel pump and the thermo switch are both wired to this ballast resistor, although this is the way I have it has always been and I haven’t ever had this missing problem. Is this the 100% wrong way to have it done?

I can wire the fan directly to the battery, but where do I wire the fuel pump into the ignition? so that it turns on when I turn the key to the ignition position?

I wired it all back together like it was for now just to see if would start and it did although I did notice that the ceramic ballast resistor became quite hot very quickly after turning the ignition. Is this normal. Here is a diagram of the current wiring.

Any help is appreciated!

[MWP]

That wiring is completley wrong. Eeek.
You are drawing power for the fuel pump and thermo fan though the ballast resistor... no wonder its getting hot!!

If anything those should be wired on the other side of the ballast resitor where the IGN power comes in.
This is still a bad thing though as you will be drawing too much current off the IGN line.
Best thing you can do is wire in a relay that switches power from the battery to the thermo fan and fuel pump when ign is turned on. If you set this up, make sure to fuse it!

[poida]

That wiring is completley wrong. Eeek.
You are drawing power for the fuel pump and thermo fan though the ballast resistor... no wonder its getting hot!!

If anything those should be wired on the other side of the ballast resitor where the IGN power comes in.
This is still a bad thing though as you will be drawing too much current off the IGN line.
Best thing you can do is wire in a relay that switches power from the battery to the thermo fan and fuel pump when ign is turned on. If you set this up, make sure to fuse it!

Yeah thanks for the advice, i might add this was the way it was done when i bought the car nearly 10 years ago. Ive also had it at an auto electricans and he never mentioned it was lamed out. Just to clarify, I do have the thermofan itself wired through a relay so it is just the switch that when its sensor gets to the right temp, it flicks over triping the relay that then turns the fan on.

I kill the r-tard that did this wiring.

[lt1972]

Although you have a few issues with the way that the above mentioned are wired.
I had this problem big time at small car sunday 2004 with mine. and hey battery was dead. All it was ...... no charge into the battery, changed the alternator, and for good measure changed the battery ... hey no more problem.
Try this sounds like it may fix your missfire probs.
But make sure you take above advise as well. i would be using relay for thermo and fuel pump.
Hope this helps.

[poida]

Hey guys, thanks for your advice.


After changing the dizzy cap, rotor, plugs, points, ballast resistor, condenser, wiring fan switch and fuel pump via a relay it still missed badly again

I changed the dizzy over for a spare one i had and it seems to be fine. I noticed a plastic washer/separator was cracked which may have been causing the ignition to short.


I still have to set the correct gap and timing but the missing seems to be gone. I'll take it for a longer drive and see if in fact it is fixed.


If not, im going to see an auto electrician

[o_man_ra23]

you didnt mention that the insulation washer from the points output was rootard. That would explain a lot. Your getting a high frequency earth through that crack... not a problem for DC, but when the dizzy starts spinning, its a big issue.

Also, you should always fuse everything that comes off the battery (except the starter motor) and always run a relay for anything with reasonable current draw (like a thermofan or fuel pump). The relay should be fused. Fuses should be as close to the battery as possible for maximum protection. Remember, they are there to stop your pride and joy catching on fire... regardless of how little of a fashion accessory they may be.

Cheers, Owen

[poida]

Hi, Yeah i didnt notice the damaged washer untill i changed the dizzy over. I have connected the pump and switch via relays. Makes a lot of sense!

I will fuse everything this weekend as i'm not driving the car.

Cheers for the help!

[o_man_ra23]

no probs mate, good to see things are running well now.

Cheers, Owen