SC14 identification help

[YelloRolla]

Your question may as well have been "how long is a piece of string?". The devil is in the details and always will be.

What EFI system is it? Is it aftermarket?
What car/engine is it in?

Only if the EFI system is designed to "see boost". AFAIK an N/A EFI system, equipped with a MAP sensor may be able to compensate for a very small boost increase - although I doubt that it will handle 8 PSI and I doubt that the injectors will handle it.
I don't have the calculations on hand for working out the injector sizing (based on HP output which is another calculation of boost pressure added/non-boosted power output).

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Fairenough, there couldnt be a definate answer.

I want a supercharger to put on an old carby engine, but about 10mins ago i thought about a SC14 on a 22R-E.
I Think 22R-E's have AFM's, not MAP sensors, but i dont know what map sensors are...
Any idea's on how a stock 22RE would handle low boost?

[jonra23]

........................................length width height weight displacement
SC14 85-89+ 1G-GZE 311mm 148mm 254mm 11.9kg 1420cc
SC12 86-89+ 4A-GZE ~ 249mm 148mm 254mm 10.8kg 1200cc

regards
jon

[Screamn_Sleeka]

thanks for that info jonra23, 12kg JESUS!

[Mr Revhead]

they also have sc12 or sc14 cast into the housing.
at least my 2 do. sc12s that is

[jonra23]

Most engines can run a bit of boost, how much depends on a fair few things, compression ratio, ECU parameters (mappable fuel and ignition capability) how efficent your intercooler is, and basic engine structure.

Supercharger and carby is not very efficient;

if you are running draw throught (carby before supercharger) you can not realy run an intercooler or a backfire with an intercooler full of fuel/air mix could be fairly spectatular so inefficent because of temp rise at supercharger,

setting up a blow through system you either have to get a carby set up for blow through(=$) or put carby in a pressurised box with a fuel regulator that controls fuel pressure to carby in relation to boost(=headaches).

MAP is a Manifold Pressure system that calculates airflow by measuring revs and manifold pressure rather than using an airflow meter.

regards
jon

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Thanks again,
the 22RE is 9.0:1 compression.
Its a supercharger, so i didnt think an intercooler was really necessary because it wasnt going to be on all the time, jsut as a switch.
The Supercharger and carby i was thinking about was for not to a draw through (dont know wat the opposite is called), the SC14 cant be used as a draw through, but yea i know they arnt very good, jsut for a bit of fun. But if it will work on the 22RE ill take it more seriously.

[jonra23]

Intercoolers are as important on superchargers as they are on turbos, it is impossble to compress air without heating it.

If you are keen to run without an intercooler run water injection before your supercharger, helps in 2 ways on roots type, it will help rotors seal better and cools the charge air both will give you greater efficiency.

Fair few guys on here are running water or water/methanol injection precharger.

regards
jon

[Hen]

At a Winton drift day I saw a guy who had turboed his 22RE RA65 and claimed that it was still running fine on the stock AFM and some Supra injectors (That is all I heard from him, no idea of accuracy or exact details). It ran ok, and looked to make good power, but dropped a turbo oil line before I got a chance to have a real sticky beak.

So it seems like stock 22RE management can cope with some boost.

Hen

[Screamn_Sleeka]

i like the sound of that Hen.

[YelloRolla]

At a Winton drift day I saw a guy who had turboed his 22RE RA65 and claimed that it was still running fine on the stock AFM and some Supra injectors (That is all I heard from him, no idea of accuracy or exact details). It ran ok, and looked to make good power, but dropped a turbo oil line before I got a chance to have a real sticky beak.

So it seems like stock 22RE management can cope with some boost.

You will need a fuel reg that can cope with the rise in manifold pressure.

[SillyCarS]

With regards to the injector size mentioned above

I doubt that it will handle 8 PSI and I doubt that the injectors will handle it.
I don't have the calculations on hand for working out the injector sizing (based on HP output which is another calculation of boost pressure added/non-boosted power output).

First thing, work out how much power you want out of the engine, 22-re supercharged at 8psi what would that be? 140rwkw?

Then calculate this at the flywheel by considering 20% driveline losses. Multiplying 140rwkw by 1.25 (approx 10-25%) gives 175kw at the crank.

Convert this to hp by multiplying by 1.34 and you get 188hp then this would lead to the logical assumption that each cylinder needs to supply 47hp of fuel.

Now divide this individual cyclinder power by 2 to give total pounds/hour required by the injector, which in this instance is 23.5hp. This is the minimum flow rating of each injector.

Multiply this by 10.2 gives us 240cc's

Therefore the smart thing to do would be to buy some 250cc injectors. (Assuming my dick all knowledge on a 22-re is correct)

Hope that helps

Craig

[Screamn_Sleeka]

140rwkw is nuts, i thought 8 psi was really low.
22R-E's are 100hp stock @ 5000rpm.

I think i can follow your working out, so 250cc injectors are plenty enoughtness.
7M-GE injectors must be around 250cc (ill look that up), and i assume thats what the guy with "supra injectors" is using, so hopfully they will fit in the manifold.

I didnt know the fuel reg was involved with maifold pressures, hopfully a 7M-GE fuel reg can be adapted.

EDIT:
Flow Rate:
295 cc/min Yellow Tip
315 cc/min Light Green
Yellow Tip support about 10-11 psi
Green Tip support about 12-13 psi.

from this site:
http://www.lextreme.com/7mge.html

Maybe someone thats swaped 7M injectors to a UZ like on that site would sell me the 251cc UZ's for cheap...

[blue22]

As far as I know it dosn't matter wich blower you use 'cause the boost is dependant on how fast you spin the thing!!

Cheers! Phil (the old fart)

[YelloRolla]

The harder that you spin the super charger, the further out of its efficiency range it will get, it will (in theory) probably take more power to drive as well.

Thanks SillycarS for posting the injector sizing.