Air Conditioning Tech Thread.

[dnegative]

Go a pair and crack the line lol
The whole bullshit about needing a license is a joke, one of these days I'll make an adapter that fits those air dusters jaycar sell and re-gas my car with one of these for a whole $18. No license needed to buy and I can spray it into the air at will.

[maccac__1590]

whats in the air dusters?? may as well just make a adaptor and use the lpg from your bbq bottle haha, thats what ill bed doing when my shits

edit: after a quick google im surprised to find that some do use 134a, handy to know haha

[dnegative]

Yeah they are r134a but because its not for refrigeration or air conditioning its not covered by any laws.

[PrettyCoolWagon]

[QUOTE= The whole bullshit about needing a license is a joke[QUOTE]

Ah.. That youtube clip was american.. So.. what I'm reading is.. in Australia, one has to have a licence?

Nanny laws...

[Rhyno]

Go a pair and crack the line lol
The whole bullshit about needing a license is a joke, one of these days I'll make an adapter that fits those air dusters jaycar sell and re-gas my car with one of these for a whole $18. No license needed to buy and I can spray it into the air at will.

I don't know about needing a license being a joke - stops unskilled workers from being able to buy the gas, and hence keeps the number of dodgey frigeys down. Its like saying an automotive certificate is a joke, as any average joe can complete an performance engine rebuild in their drive way by themselves and put down good reliable power for the next 5-10 years. Is this not what you expect of a refrigeration mechanic when he repairs/installs a piece of equipment?

I would be interested to see if that works dnegative, the price of r134a is crazy these days. I would imagine that the gas in the dusters would be cheap and nasty, but who knows. Definetly need more than one can to get up to 300-400 grams.

[dnegative]

I don't know about needing a license being a joke - stops unskilled workers from being able to buy the gas, and hence keeps the number of dodgey frigeys down.

Nearly every workshop has a bottle and set of gauges these days, the 'unskilled' workers (normally licensed mechanics) get plenty of practice. Even still, I can quite easily get someone to tip some gas in for $100 without seeing why it leaked out.
Automotive AC is pretty simple when push comes to shove. Orifice tube/TX valve, bunch of hoses and o-rings, condenser, evaporator, compressor, pressure switch, temp sensor and a bunch of fill valves. If the AC stops working because the compressor wont kick in and its got gas its suddenly the mechanics job etc


I think the price of the gas is a scam and I think the requirements and bullshit ARCTICK piss and moan about is bullshit.

[CrUZida]

Nearly every workshop has a bottle and set of gauges these days, the 'unskilled' workers (normally licensed mechanics) get plenty of practice.

He's talking about home mechanics...

Also, the price of gas has doubled since the introduction of the carbon tax. Yay for Labor...

[Z2TT]

All these environmental concerns, are apparently not environmental concerns at all.

So letting out R134a is Illegal because it is ozone depleting........ never mind the fact that Freeze Spray from Electronics Shops, Air Dusters and Freeze and Release for rusted bolts is R134a and you can freely buy it and spray all you want.

With all the cars that develop leaks from worn parts and even new models that use cheap Hose that develops leaks in the first year, all the R134a that people come in for a Regas.... ends up leaking out anyway but that is of least worry to the Authorities. And how about the R134a Retrofit ports were intended to ensure people were not allowed to put R12 back in as the ports are different, which doesn't matter as you can hook your manifold gauge set to any cylinder you want.

For all the workshops that did the right thing as the ARC Said, bought and maintained expensive recovery equipment and payed recovery cylinder rental fees and serviced their equipment, they now get rewarded with a Carbon Tax on the refrigerant they deal with, a piss take to the A/C and Auto-Elec workshop owners.

About putting non refrigerant grade R134a in, it all depends what sort of contaminants it has and how they will affect the A/C Systems performance, best off to use the proper stuff instead of trying to save a few dollars for something that could be more expensive later on to fix.

For the correct amount of oil to put in a System, you will never really know without flushing every single heat exchanger and pipe, because oil is distributed everywhere. If it's all empty then most cars have about 200ml. If you have previously had a leak it's all guesswork, good idea is to add 40ml or so if it's been leaking a lot, run the system at idle for 15 Minutes and so long as it is cooling well, then stop it. Remove the refrigerant then remove the compressor or use it's drain plug if it has one, and see how much oil you can drain out. If you can barely get a drop, then your system is low on oil as there is not enough oil that once distributed amongst the system to be able to supply the needs of the compressor.

Normally if you drain say 15ml then it's not too bad, about 30ml and your safe to say I guess that the compressor is getting oil and that the system is not low but the amount you drain will always vary from system to system and compressor types, but using common sense is the best just remember overcharging with oil can cause performance problems.

I too have noticed many Soarer/Celsior/Supra (Denso 10PA Series) Compressors are very prone to shaft seal leakage when they age, which is why so many of them are noisy from low oil/overheating or siezed. Soarers and some other model Toyotas on the Top plate have blocked off ports that are sealed with a plate and o-rings behind them, these cause mysterious leaks especially ones that cannot be seen which are adjacent to the engine block. I carry complete Seal kits for these compressors if anyone is interested.

[Rhyno]

OK Let me be clear *deep breath* haha

Every one is entitled to an opinion and this is mine

Cruzida is right, I am referring to fully qualified refrigeration mechanics, not individuals that have done a one day/week/month course.

Yes car AC's are very simple, hence why I encourage people to do their own work, they are hard to stuff up if you keep to the basics (cleanliness is close to godliness I was always taught lol).

Car refrigerant systems have a very small charge, say 300-400 grams. Split systems can have 1-3kilograms depending on size and the pipe run. Large cascade systems can have liquid recievers of up to 1000L or more, so buy comparison a car AC is a grain of salt on the beaches of the world. Can you imagine the damage a 1000L may do? Sure you may have 1000 shit boxes with leaking ac's getting around, but slowly but surely these constraints on manufacturers and service agents are tightening up - just think about how much easier it was to do an AC job 5 years ago? But thats not the point - if you are gonna do something, do it right the first time.

As such, the "Bullshit" ARCTICK make you go through is bugger all comparied to the controls applied to large scale refrigeration systems. Yes you can get a bloke to charge your system up, shit, I do my own when I can and I have no auto gas license at all. But I think in another 5 years this will change. Soon they will weigh the gas charge of every system, and if 300 grams is unacounted for, then it is clear some has used it for something or it has leaked out, and you will have the ARCTICK fellows doing back flips. Times are a changing.

I can start more points and arguments but I don't really care too - everyone is intitled to an opinion, so if you feel strongly enough, please form a commity and lobby your local political member - besides that lets keep the discussion on ACTUAL Tech on AC's and not the bullshit that go's with them. If you feel the need to do that, than boostcruising.com is waiting for you

Kind regards,

Ryan Wright

[dnegative]

I just don't agree with how r134a is treated when it comes in a BOC bottle with 'refrigerant' written on it, suddenly goes from a big air duster to $150,000 worth of liability etc
But yes, onto the technical speak


My Cressida was leaking out of a fill valve through the schrader valve a year or so ago, I've pulled the old valve and put in a new one. I'm waiting on a fitting to put some compressed air into the system (or nitrogen if I can be fucked) as my mate cant 'borrow' some gas for a few weeks. Anyone had similar problems before?

[Z2TT]

Common for valves to leak, many new cars do it too. Make sure your caps have a good seal on them and that will help a lot with reducing the leak.

[Rhyno]

Hey Dnegative,

Yeah Z2TT is right common to leak, they are cheap little bastards of things

I have found on a few occasions where the shraider valve has not been screwed down completly in their seat. Some frigeys I have noticed, that when their gauges rubbers are new you cannot get the shraider depresser on the gauge line to touch the valve. So instead of screwing the depresser out (or possibly needed to make it closer) they wind the valve out so it just touches, which is fine when the gauge line is on, but once their finished if they don't remember to screw it in and/or have a good seal on the cap, they have just left the system with a leak

Don't use compressed air, when mixed with oil it can cause an explosion, just like how you don't put oil on the threads of an oxy set.

Use Nitrogen, its dry and inert (safe), and will help absorb any moisture in the system.

Might pay to change your o rings too while your at it and got gas out

[Z2TT]

What is probably a problem with air, is in theory, all the moisture will saturate the PAG oil, which will hold onto this. The new receiver/drier should absorb some of this in theory though.

[matty12]

I change the schraeder valves on every vehicle I do. The cost to replace after you've just charged it versus the small amount of time and cost of parts makes it well worth it. Yeah theres tools to do it after but prevention is better than cure.

The problem I see is these hydrocarbon gases that anyone can buy, you don't need any experiance to buy this stuff so anyone who Google a/c can fill or try to fill there a/c system. At least if your using r134a your supposed to have some sort of formal training.

[TERRA Operative]

Does anyone here work on A/C systems in Brisbane?

My Levin doesn't cool down as much as I'd like unless I'm moving. It probably just needs a regas but I'd rather take it to someone here rather than a random to get looked at.
I've cleaned out the sticks and junk from the evaporator and fitted the optional pollen filter, as well as adding foam around between the radiator and condenser to help improve efficiency by preventing air leaking past. Next step is to add insulation to any exposed cool lines.

I would really like to get it degassed so I can replace all the o-rings and then gas it up again too.


Also, has anyone played around with the idea of a larger compressor on a 4AGE silvertop? QLD heat and humidity sucks a bit at this time of year, so my A/C is on all the time (god bless climate control).