The 18R-GTE reference manual ...

[o_man_ra23]

I think its safe enough to say that E85 is too new for any definitive long term practical applications results to be shown (unless we can get somebody from Brazil to tell us what it is like running an old car on E85??). But, something which did present as an issue, was when fuel companies started blending bio-fuels with diesel (and in some cases emulsifying water in there too!!) The Bio fuels had a definite effect on seals (perhaps this is where the hype about E85 and seals is coming from?? Perhaps not...??) and BP had to get a large number of diesel injector pumps resealed at their cost.

The practical issue with water being emulsified into the diesel was found by one of my workmates who ran an earthworks company out west. He found that on some batches of fuel, the equipment ran hot, and sluggish, and other batches of fuel they ran great, but filled the water traps in the fuel all the time. So the absorbed moisture (this time deliberate mischief in the case of fuel companies - not sure if they do it any more, but my Hilux hasn't filled the water trap yet) had dire effects on the performance.

Whether any of that will relate to E85 will no doubt become evident over the coming years. The fact that the V8 Shopping Carts run on 85% Ethanol (don't know what fuel is used for the other 15%, but I would guess it is better than the jungle juice that is mixed in for the petrol stations) obviously shows that the performance benefits aren't a myth. But we don't know what they have done with the rest of the fuel system (other than make it bigger to account for the greater thirst).

Last thing - wouldn't evaporation become an issue if you left the lid off a drum of fuel for that long??

[JustenGT8]

Diesel is a very different kettle of fish. For starters the seal on a 40psi petrol system is worlds away from the seal on a 4000psi system

I can tell you the local race cars running E85 have done to run E85 beyond bigger injectors...nothing Gains are conservatively 40kw at the wheels for a 2 litre turbo. In one particular Evo they couldn't make it ping with ignition advance. A local 1.3 litre turbo saw 250fwkw which is no mean feat.

Anyways, the cheap mans race fuel and what my new engine will be running. On a det prone high comp 18RGT it would be ideal.

[RA23GT]

will keep E85 in mind for sure, was thinking of water injection but will see how the build pans out. Would you say it's no use running the standard injectors if a mild tune, low boost is used initially until the bank balance regains and I get some bigger squirters?

[RAAAH23]

my uncle runs E85 on his 7M MkII, its very cheap if you can find a way to make sure its running without faults on a carbie system for the older cars. uncle also had to upgrade the injectors to 1100cc

its only 99cents at the gladesville united petrol station (only station in sydney to sell it), not 2 dollars somthing from those racing shops

[o_man_ra23]

RA23GT, that is a question of math. The stock injectors are somewhere around 230cc right?? So maximum crankshaft HP each injector is injector size in lb/hr (230/10.5 = 21.9) multiply by max duty cycle (0.8 = 80% - run higher than this and you risk injector burnout), then divide by the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (in lb/hr). For NA, this would be around 0.5, for forced induction, about 0.6. Works out about 140hp NA, or 117hp with forced induction!! And that is at the flywheel. To get 200hp at the flywheel (a respectable mild tune amount), you would need close to 400cc injectors.

Either of these sites will give you very close to the same values:
http://www.iroczone.com/calcs/injectorsize.htm
http://www.200sxs13.nismo.org/Injector.html

For reference it cost me about $150 (Australian$ including delivery from the US) for the full set of 440cc injectors, cleaned, tested, and with new clips/pigtails.

[The Witzl]

i'll definitely be keeping E85 in mind for my 18RGTE, once it becomes more readily available.
Unfortunately that servo in Gladesville is waaaaay too far away from me to bother with it for now.

[RAAAH23]

yeah they dont expect to be releasing it to the rest of the united petrol stations till late 2010 early 2011 and only if there is enough support. but the outlay of running a E85 system in your car is not viable at this stage. the amount of money chaging fuel lines, injectors, pumps ect would deffinatly outweigh the benefits. unless as my uncle does you only use the car as a weekend car then it would be a viable solution. also have to keep in mind that the E85 "goes off" much quicker than your standard 91ulp

[RA23GT]

For reference it cost me about $150 (Australian$ including delivery from the US) for the full set of 440cc injectors, cleaned, tested, and with new clips/pigtails.

What were the 440's out of?

[o_man_ra23]

Honda Talon. As per Witzl's instructions to me, search on Flea-bay worldwide for "1G DSM Injectors"

[RA23GT]

Anyone know what the optimum primary length to the turbo is or is it turbo dependant?

[RA23GT]

Honda Talon? Cool, will look. Thanks

[Gumwah]

Ok so i've jus finished reading the thread(took a few coffees) and theres quite a lot of interesting info and setups.
I myself have a 79 Corona 2000GT t130 with the 18r-geu.
i was going to go along the lines of a 1j, 1uz or beams 3s, as i thought the 18rgeu wouldnt be worth doing.
But i stumbled across this and have decided to give it a go. I will have the car with me next week but ill be going away for a week, when i get back my mate and i will semi disassemble the engine and see what condition its in.
So as i said i've seen a lot of setups on here but no dyno sheets for us to see what power/torque you make over the range.
Basically what i want is to turbo this to get around 180rwkw with a good torque figure.
I want it to be street drivable and 2200cc for more low end torque.
So what pistons, cams, rods, crank etc would be suitable for my application?

[o_man_ra23]

Anyone know what the optimum primary length to the turbo is or is it turbo dependant?

Optimum primary length to turbo is basically irrelevant unless you are chasing huge power figures at high RPM, in which case you probably aren't going to do the work yourself.

What you are better off doing is keeping the exhaust runners as short as possible to the turbo to maximise gas temperature and thus gas velocity into the turbine wheel, which will improve low end spooling.

Gumwah, 2200cc sounds like a good start, Cams can be subjective and there have been a lot of advancement in their profiles over the last decade or so. Best bet is to contact somebody such as Kelford Cams (in Christchurch) and seek their advice. I believe they have the correct blanks for the 18R-G also. 180kW isn't an unrealistic power figure if you are going to build the bottom end up to take it, so remember that ARP rod studs, big end studs and head studs are also necessary, plus if you can find one a multilayer metal head gasket. Rods you will need to search around (if nobody on here can offer advice) to find out who actually makes the ones you will require and go from there.

[The Witzl]

Aftermarket billet rods dont exist off the shelf - you have to get them custom made.
I got mine done by Crower in the USA, many years ago.

To be honest, financially an engine conversion will be cheaper to get the end power result you want than building up an 18RG-turbo.
Of course the 18RG will be "period correct" for your 2000GT corona, and personally i would prefer to see an 18RG in such a rare car......

To build a decent turbo 18RGE, you really only need forged pistons and upgraded fasteners, IMO. JustenGT-8 used to make some pretty hefty power in the early 90s with a turbo 18RGE, on stock rods with forged flat top pistons. I would've done the same - but im a little silly and decided to get rods AND pistons custom made with a modified rod:stroke ratio.

If the rest of your engine is in good shape, then it wont be too expensive an exercise to get the engine rebuilt with forged pistons.
Stock EFI intake manifold is good enough.
Custom turbo exhaust manifold required of course.
Larger injectors.... all the other stuff.... and an aftermarket ECU is a must. I recommend the Adaptronic e420c (its what im using).


My engine still isnt running yet. It's built, but not installed. Check back later in the year and it might be running

[Gumwah]

Aftermarket billet rods dont exist off the shelf - you have to get them custom made.
I got mine done by Crower in the USA, many years ago.

To be honest, financially an engine conversion will be cheaper to get the end power result you want than building up an 18RG-turbo.
Of course the 18RG will be "period correct" for your 2000GT corona, and personally i would prefer to see an 18RG in such a rare car......

To build a decent turbo 18RGE, you really only need forged pistons and upgraded fasteners, IMO. JustenGT-8 used to make some pretty hefty power in the early 90s with a turbo 18RGE, on stock rods with forged flat top pistons. I would've done the same - but im a little silly and decided to get rods AND pistons custom made with a modified rod:stroke ratio.

If the rest of your engine is in good shape, then it wont be too expensive an exercise to get the engine rebuilt with forged pistons.
Stock EFI intake manifold is good enough.
Custom turbo exhaust manifold required of course.
Larger injectors.... all the other stuff.... and an aftermarket ECU is a must. I recommend the Adaptronic e420c (its what im using).


My engine still isnt running yet. It's built, but not installed. Check back later in the year and it might be running

Yeh i think it would keep it more original using the 18r, but if the insides are rooted(as ill see in 2 weeks) ill just do conversion.
Did he keep the same CR with the forgies?
Also would i was thinking it would looking pretty sweet if i were to get quad throttles off a blacktop 4age? suggestion?
I saw people talking about the Adaptronic e420c earlier in this thread, i think i remember seeing that it tunes itself? thats crazy.

o_man_ra23 thanks for the advice aswell, i never thought about the studs :\ that would of been a disaster