20V vs 4AGZE + Turbo

[Starfire]

My next inlet manifold is going to be made of glass. The paper mache one was a disaster.

[oldcorollas]

haha you guys.
there is an old saying that goes like this.
"you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink"
i feel it fits this thread perfectly.
now why dont you go and find me all the inlet manifolds that companies are selling made from mild steel.
and ill find all the onles made from alloy.
seriously i know you probably both have ones made from steel and thats why you will defend it to the death,but you wont find professionals doing that,and professionals are the ones we should be looking to for ideas on how we design our own product.
no offence to either of you i just firmly disagree with what you are saying

perhaps a new saying shoud be:
you can lead a naysayer(/internet rumour monger) to a thread, but you can't make him tell you his reasons for negativity

i told you why they are made from alloy
that is for cast manifolds. you can't cast in steel, and cast iron is not a good idea.

no company would use mild steel because of the possibility of rust in 20 years.. i thought that would be obvious to you most aftermarket use alloy because it's pretty, and people (like you) expect it to be made from alloy.

i don't have a steel intake

professionals make things for the best price to make them the most money.

why do companies sell stainless steel exhaust manifolds, even tho they have a tendency to crack due to sensitisation at temperatures you expect to find in a turbo manifold (unless it is LL grade)

no offence to you, but if you are just another "professional metal worker" who keeps spouting an unbased opinion on the internet......

on the otherhand, i look at things from a scientific prespective.. being a metallurgist and all.. and its funny to me that people present rumours and opinions as fact.
some aftermarket intakes ARE made of stainless instead of alloy... are they bad?

why not give your reasons as to why steel is bad... as opposed to just saying that alloy is better for no reason? and it looks like the professional job you showed earlier has steel in there anyway????

gearbox... is it better to have a higher rate of heat conduction INTO a manifold... or to insulate it alloy is not the best choice for all situations

seriously, no offence intended.. i just want to know why you think steel is so bad, and alloy is so good, backed up with some kind of reasoning rather than saying we are wrong yaknow.. this being a technical discussion forum instead of hot fours and all

[hybridaddy]

ive offered enough opinion i think.
aluminium is better for inlet manifolds and cooler pipes full stop.
you guys want to believe steel is better,thats fine,just dont expect to get much repspect from anyone in the game

ps this is by far the silliest debate ive ever been drawn into

[hybridaddy]

btw you seem to take great joy in pointing out that the pic i posted has infact got steel in it.
but those pieces could be easily cleaned inside unlike a whole welded plenum chamber.

im quite clear that im pushing sh1t uphill here as you are obviously "the man" on this forum and should never be questioned

[Hokey]

not the fact that he is "the man" on these forums. the fact he is a doctor of metalurgy. wouldn't that mean more to you than a fabricators apprenticeship

[oldcorollas]

ive offered enough opinion i think.
aluminium is better for inlet manifolds and cooler pipes full stop.

seriously.. that is the WORST reason to believe you. do you have any kind of physical or scientific reasoning for the claim?

i am not the "man" on the forums... i just always back up my claims with proof

are you saying alloy is better due to corrosion, thermal expansion, heat capacity, heat conduction, strength, fatigue, toughness???

i'm saying that steel is not "bad", and alloy is usually used for convenience and cost by manufacturers.. and thus aftermarket also use alloy for piping because people are conditioned into thinking alloy is better.. when it may actually be not.. (and perhaps comment on why manufacturers are actually moving to PLASTIC manifolds instead...)

perhaps you could let us plebs know the information about alloy vs steel that you are privy to?

the only reason i am continuing this so called discussion, is because i see it as part of the point of toymods to stamp out any illfounded intahnet myths and heresay.... ie "my mate said this" or " my mechanic said that" or

"some welder guy said it was better to use alloy"
"did he say why?"
"nahh, he just said it was better full stop" (i'm kidding here )

[The Last Streetfighter]

that is for cast manifolds. you can't cast in steel, and cast iron is not a good idea.


yaknow.. this being a technical discussion forum instead of hot fours and all

What is ASTM A216 GR.WCB?

Also for devil's advocate and a bit of light reading... http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art67.htm [Cast Stainless]
http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art25.htm

Oh, and of course you want high conductivity and emmissivity from your intercooler. That's how you get heat out of your intake charge. But, once you have done that, you might not want to let heat back into your "cooled" air. So if your pipe from your I/C to wherever you are sending it has a chance to get cooler, then you need to let it, but if it has a chance to gather heat from something, then you have to stop it.

I would suggest that in most cases in your engine bays, there is more possibility to gather heat than to dissipate it during this journey. So some alloy with a hight Heat Transfer coefficient would probably not be best.

Hybridaddy: Please keep posting in here as long as you have something to say. I think this has been a good discussion so far.

[syncro]

my beams 3sge mr2 engine has a factory steel intake manifold with mig welds on it.

the airbox covering the throttle bodies on my blacktop 20v ae111 looks like steel

somebody should tell mr toyota to make them out of alloy!

[oldcorollas]

What is ASTM A216 GR.WCB?

Also for devil's advocate and a bit of light reading... http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art67.htm [Cast Stainless]
http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art25.htm

Hybridaddy: Please keep posting in here as long as you have something to say. I think this has been a good discussion so far.

sorry... manufacturers won't cast in steel... of course you can cast in steel, but for this application, there is no way you would do it. heck, decent turbo manifolds are cast in inconel... but for manufacturer, or aftermarket that actualyl wants to sell parts, they will cast in either cast iron or alloy. (except for their race teams )
technically, almost everything is cast at some stage......

and i agree, please keep posting, the more knowledgeable people on here the better, and i still want to find out more about your opinions.

[Dom-AE71]

you dont need a custom fuel rail

if your going to be running low boost, 1JZGTE injectors swap straight in and are (from memory) 380cc?

easily enough.