twincharging prototypes needing constructive critisism (SC14 + turbo)

[RAd28]

okay well i understand the idea has been all but set in concrete, never-the-less i thought i'd post an idea that just hit me...



you'll note the plenum has a wastegate of it's own, this would ideally be synchronised with the wastegate of the turbo, so that if the plenum wastegate opens the turbo won't keep spinning trying to make boost.

the supercharger again works from a clutch that can be manually activated/deactivated, activated from a lack of pressure in the plenum (wastegate closed), or deactivated due to too much pressure (wastegate open)


this idea is aimed at getting immediate responce, no lag what-so-ever.

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

okay well i understand the idea has been all but set in concrete, never-the-less i thought i'd post an idea that just hit me...



you'll note the plenum has a wastegate of it's own, this would ideally be synchronised with the wastegate of the turbo, so that if the plenum wastegate opens the turbo won't keep spinning trying to make boost.

the supercharger again works from a clutch that can be manually activated/deactivated, activated from a lack of pressure in the plenum (wastegate closed), or deactivated due to too much pressure (wastegate open)


this idea is aimed at getting immediate responce, no lag what-so-ever.

what's stopping the air being pumped from the SC in that picture being pushed back thru the turbo?

[brett_celicacoupe]

exactly what i was going to ask.

also, whats stopping the air from the turbo feeding through the SC when its disengaged

[mic*]

Also, you cant bleed metered air anywhere but thru the engine...

[brett_celicacoupe]

Also, you cant bleed metered air anywhere but thru the engine...

answer = map sensored ECU

[mic*]

Forgive the crappy paint sketch, but ive been thinkin that this could be what my first practical education on twincharging could look like.

It is based on the 1GGZE. The FMIC may go depending on practicality/physicality and how well the water injection goes into the future... At the moment im getting great results with the WInj plumbed as shown (obviously no turbo) and using less than 10% to fuel. It is effectively cooling the roots charger (@ 15psi!) to achieve better efficiency than stock.

EDIT: I cant beleive after all this i forgot to draw in the ABV. Its just a little bypass that connects the inlet manifold to the pipe immediately after the TB. The pipe travels right above the inlet manifold so the bypass is short and inconspicuous.

[IMG][/IMG]

[RAd28]

exactly what i was going to ask.

also, whats stopping the air from the turbo feeding through the SC when its disengaged

lol... this is why it's a rough idea, and i thought of that problem myself earlier, i guess the solution is that you could use a throttle style butterfly valve, with a pneumatic actuation similar to what brett suggested in his final idea.

also, as i mentioned to brett earlier, i paid most attention to the plenum/triple throttle body concept rather then to the twin charge idea.

as for the metered air prob, will be exactly as brett mentioned, aftermarket ecu, would need one anyway to control a TPS for triple throttles, i'm not 100% sure, but i don't see why you couldn't use a stock TPS, after all it'll measure throttle percentage... although if using multiple TB's the potential is to let more air through for a given throttle position.

[Rcubed]

found this on the old forums.

Here are the pics from Bill's site:





And this is the site itself:

http://www.billzilla.org/rallycar.htm

[RAd28]

i e-mailed this fella, (he's around south QLD/north NSW) and he said the no longer used the twin charge setup, 'cause it was impractical, they reverted to a twin ball bearing set up...

[Rcubed]

what did he say was impractical about it?
was it billzilla? or someone else?

i e-mailed this fella, (he's around south QLD/north NSW) and he said the no longer used the twin charge setup, 'cause it was impractical, they reverted to a twin ball bearing set up...

[mic*]

I must admit apart from the 1G-GZE basics i can hardly make out what the hell is going on there... Cant see any cooling tho...

[brett_celicacoupe]

bought a SC14 blower today!!

so now i can start to sus it out better

I must admit apart from the 1G-GZE basics i can hardly make out what the hell is going on there... Cant see any cooling tho...

imagine your engine with a one way valve that is parallel to the blower.

and in the pipe between your AFM and TB, there is a turbo

[NO-WAY]

HAs any1 metioned 4pervn corolla, twin charge setup as i see it its idea ,

ive got a EMS ECU and using the outputs makes it whole easyier as they are programmabe on the software , and will drive just about anything so to follow the twin charge as i cant be ass drawing one

filter one feed turbo in , turbo out feed to a Y shaped joint with both of the upper Y having a stepper motor based TB on it , conected to one upper Y with TB

filter 2 feed SC inlet , SC out connected to the other side side of the upper Y,

the bottom of the Y connects to main TB of plenum , say a STD Inlet manifold , or custom

Add FMI/C as fancyed andbetween bottom y and Main TB

Operation wise

2 items to control are the upper Y TB
SC Clutch timing

this is were it gets tricky and only with guages galore can tune all the events to happen at just the right time , with a lot of trial and error in getting it just nice

so at IDLE , S/C is not active and engine is suppied by free spooling S/C , this does work i have no ABV on the SC , with and 300RPM difference in idle rpm , but since we have a EMS its tuneable to either tuning , so its upto u if u drive it at idle of not SC Y TB full open

1500 RPM - SC Engages boost Y TB closed sealing Turbo system

as turbo gets near the 10 psi of S/C the EMS Started to crack open the turbo YTB to help stop the turbo from undue forces ( this is one of the hardest thing to map , but the EMS has duel plane mixing so a TBoost V Sboost map is used the stepper mapping helpinbg make this process smooth (takes a while) ,

once mainfold pressure is above SC +.5psi , the SC cutch disengages and the sc Y TB closes

allowing turbo boost , through FMIC for COOL air to bring the beast alive till the rev limiter hits!


BOVS then release all pressure

like to thank an unnamed for ddealer for suppling bovs and TB off a BA as its fly by wire and works well!

[brett_celicacoupe]

any pics or videos??

[NO-WAY]

unfortunatly not as yet as the car is still in syd and im up in QLD , once i get it up here ill get some happening