4age rod in a 4ac??

[sam-131]

QUOTE=Nim]Notice that that dude didn't bother opening the block up? Opening the block is expensive when it comes to putting it back together. For a 4A-C, there isn't any point, as the price of doing so will start to get close to 4A-GZE territory. I'm sure you could pick one up for well under $1000. I've seen fully re-built ones for ~$1200.

His 4A-C turbo will likely not last that long either. If you wanna make one that will last, you'll need low comp pistons, which means you may aswell get 4A-GZE pistons and rods, which means you may aswell get a 4A-GZE block that you don't have to open up... while you're at it you may aswell get the whole engine. It'll last way longer, be cheaper in the end, and provide you with more power.

And 90rwkw 'un dynoed' sounds to me like it's really about 70rwkw. Which is actualy still more than I would expect from a turbo 4A-C.

Anyway, in the end, going fast costs money. If you don't have money, I suggest you stick to something a bit slower. It'll cost less in blown up engines and petrol. Nothing worse than looking at your car and thinking "I can't drive you 'cuz I can't afford the petrol."

And we're not hijacking your thread. Your question is will 4A-GE rods fit in a 4A-C. The answer is: Don't bother.[/QUOTE]


custom manifolds pffft use the stock intake and get a welder to weild a t25 flange on the stock exhust manifold done dump a strombreg on the front and run 9 psi and if you game look in to water injection

run two head gaskets to lower the comp set the timing on the retard side and make the carbie a lil richer then normal

[kingmick]

Notice that that dude didn't bother opening the block up? Opening the block is expensive when it comes to putting it back together. For a 4A-C, there isn't any point, as the price of doing so will start to get close to 4A-GZE territory. I'm sure you could pick one up for well under $1000. I've seen fully re-built ones for ~$1200.

His 4A-C turbo will likely not last that long either. If you wanna make one that will last, you'll need low comp pistons, which means you may aswell get 4A-GZE pistons and rods, which means you may aswell get a 4A-GZE block that you don't have to open up... while you're at it you may aswell get the whole engine. It'll last way longer, be cheaper in the end, and provide you with more power.

And 90rwkw 'un dynoed' sounds to me like it's really about 70rwkw. Which is actualy still more than I would expect from a turbo 4A-C.

Anyway, in the end, going fast costs money. If you don't have money, I suggest you stick to something a bit slower. It'll cost less in blown up engines and petrol. Nothing worse than looking at your car and thinking "I can't drive you 'cuz I can't afford the petrol."

And we're not hijacking your thread. Your question is will 4A-GE rods fit in a 4A-C. The answer is: Don't bother.

i agree, it will pull like a two dollar hooker with carpal tunnel syndrome!

[Shakotan_Aaron]

thank you sam-131!!!!

i know what im doing ok you guys think i know nothing. im getting a bit frustrated. im basicly going to do what sam said. i have put a fair bit of thought into it and it and some research to back it up. now im going tubro on the 4ac with or without 4age pistons. i will have to open up the heart to wack another head gasket (to lower the compression) in so at the same time if ge rods would directly i would chuck in a set. there was/is a complete 4age bottem end with a stuffed bearing and no head for $50. and as for the getting a custom exhaust mani we it will be moded/new one made in house, i have a welder, my old man can weld and i can probaly borrow a pipe bender from somewhere. also all the nothing will be done by an expert. i have plentty of mates who can give me a hand. the thing is with a 4ac if i exadently blow the thing to kingdom come i can get another for 0-50 bucks try doing that with a 4age. what you pay for is what you get. if you pay the money for a 4age you will get a desent engine that makes a bit off power stock and you can get better parts off the shelf.

i know basicly what it will cost and i know what i will get in the end, a motor that will use the same amount of fuel as a a motor 3 time its capacity or more. and it will be a pig.

im only planning to run low boost. maybe 7psi on low every day and maybe 9psi on high when im at the track or want to get some where a bit faster. have a look how much dave lawson runs he cranks it upto 20PSI!!!!!!! at times. fair enough he has rebuilt it but i think that it should with stand a few psi for a while without shitting itself when i turn the key.

the bottem line is this i want to know if ge rods will be a direct fit/ small mod. not is it worth it or what ever. as i said im sick of people saying the same old thing.....

p.s. sam-131 i have to use a pressure sealed carby to use the blow threw method which im thinking of at the moment.

[Shakotan_Aaron]

btw LeeRoy i aprecate you imput but what good is a fwd gearbox to me??? your link went to a $650 box, have a look the add said 4agze 5speed lsd box, and olny pictured the box . if it was a complete gze for that, try and stop me getting it. i have a mate who brought a gze without a S/C for 800. and that was a bargin!!! i cant afford that and then a charger on top of that.

[sam-131]

blow threw set up hey if you get around to it take some pics i guess with the blow threw set you can run an intercooler and some say that you get less lag with a blow threw set up but meh never tryed it

what carb will you be useing?

7-9psi on a good day thats 60-90hp of boost thats more then 4ages come out with well kinda

[Shakotan_Aaron]

i would think that blow though would create more lag because of the longer piping and the intercooler, could be wrong. also with only a few psi lag relly wouldnt be problem.

i will just use a carby that has alreddy been sealed. i was thinking sigma, maybe cordia, i dont know if the old saab turbos where carby or efi.

i will put up a pics in my the project soon in members rides and will keep everyone in the loop.

[stahlz_ae86]

I'm not going to crap on about the differences and advantages of a 4A-GE/GZE over the 4A-C but in my opinion i think you shouldn't bother putting different rods into it. The 4A-C isn't as good an engine as the 4A-GE as far as head design, squish areas and flow are concerned, but as truenosedan has already proven, they are a strong enough engine to hold up against boost. Remember he said it was running on 20psi at one stage? In my opinion you should just use the stock untouched 4A-C bottom end, and if it does shit itself just pick up another one for either free or cheap as they aren't an expensive/sought after motor.

You said you are on a student budget, so save yourself the cost of gasket kit etc by leaving the bottom end together. You'll probably end up getting a 4A-GE at some point down the track anyway, in my opinion you should keep it simple / cost effective for now.

[Shakotan_Aaron]

yea i am planning on probaly getting a 4age later on down the track, when/if i do swap over to a ge, i should be able to sell the kit complete reddy to bolt in and get a bit of the money back. also i will have somthing with mild power that i can keep in if i buy a 4age and rebuild it.

im asuming that i cant put 4age rods in so that setles that then, i was thinking that wacking 2 head gaskets in will make it last longer and i would be able to run more boost safeish.

[LeeRoy]

Okay well since you've got your heart set on doing this i'll give you a bit of personal experience. A friend of mine built a turbo starlet and used his standard motor as a model for eveything ie manifolds, lines, exhaust and so on while his good turbo motor was being build. Anyways, he left the standard motor in the car and it was tuned to run and the tune was fairly conservative. Well after about 2 months he ended up shooting a rod through the block. I think it would be fair to say that the strength of a starlet motor would be similar to that of a 4ac so i don't think you will have motors lasting too long.

The problems you will have are:
1. Shitting motors...fairly constantly
2. Having to change said shittied motors
3. Building an unreliable car

However, i wish you the best in your project regardless of it's outcome.

- LeeRoy

[Nim]

I think you'll find the 4A-C is a bit stronger than the starlet engine... but not much. Perhaps it'll last 3 months?

[oldcorollas]

i was thinking that wacking 2 head gaskets in will make it last longer and i would be able to run more boost safeish.

2 headgaskets = a really dumb idea.

gasket is designed to seal between two hard metal surfaces.
two gaskets aren't designed to seal against each other.
why not just change the combustion chamber size instead?

[Shakotan_Aaron]

2 headgaskets = a really dumb idea.

gasket is designed to seal between two hard metal surfaces.
two gaskets aren't designed to seal against each other.
why not just change the combustion chamber size instead?

WTF?? you meen like stroking it? what about cuting a peice of steel plate the shape of the gasket and samwiching it between the two gaskets.. this will probaly require longer head studs..

btw, i was only thinking of the two g/h's because it has been done before.

also LeeRoy, a fairly conservitive tune meens he was running plenty of fuel through so it wouldnt ping (detonate) thats not the same as trying to run 20 psi through it. dont know what condition the motor was in previous, how strong it was, how much boost he was using or how he was driving it. im asuming that he would of been running stock boost which would probaly be 13+psi, which is a fair amount to run through a N/A motor without decompression ect. bare in mind im not planning on using more then 10psi on a hard core day, with every day boost around 7psi.

it will be largely trial and error and yes there will be plenty of errors. the thing is it dosent matter of you fuck the motor because they are sooo freking cheap, its just the time. if they only last three months well then i can live with that until i get sick of it and buy a 4age.

[Nim]

2 headgaskets = a really dumb idea.

gasket is designed to seal between two hard metal surfaces.
two gaskets aren't designed to seal against each other.
why not just change the combustion chamber size instead?

I was thinking this, but wasn't totaly sure. It doesn't seem like a very good idea. Can I give you rep yet? *clicks - computer says no* damn it!

AE71 - If you only plan on having it 3 months, I'm gonna suggest it again, do the 4A-GE setup now instead.

[psychofox]

If you use the 4AGE rods that are 18mm gudgeon / 40mm big end they will fit on the 4AC crank. But why bother? they are marginal in boosted Bigport/3rib block 4AGE's let alone bothering to fit them to a 4AC. Take the advice of everyone else in this thread - 4AC = Waste of time.

[Shakotan_Aaron]

ok so 4age rod swill fit the bottem end what about the top end where they attach to the pistons? also i would have to use bigport rod, dont small port have floting pistons??

rep??

i am planning on keeping the turbo longer than 3 months (all that work for that long, now that dosent make sence). what i ment is if it needs replacing every 3 months (it will) i can live with replacing it with another 4ac.

can you buy meaty thick h/g's for 4ac dose anyone know? if so where and how much aprox?