18RG - Oil discussion

[3AMcobra]

Hello there,

I will be doing an oil change on my ra23 celica next weekend, and have just done about 40mins of searching on this forum, the old forum and classic-celica.com via google all to find bacically a vast array of 'options' in terms of oil choice for the mighty 18RG.

Filter wise people seem to be either pointing at the genuine toyota number, which is what i'll probably get, or the z418 ryco jobbie. As for oils, theres a bit of debate, some people are saying fully synthetic, others are saying no... ??? I remember when i bought the car the ex owner told me he used some sort of 'regular cheapie' oil so nothing too fancy, but i cant remember what it was. Anyways would like to hear from you all what works and what doesnt.

Brand and viscosity.

My car has the following engine mods, mild cams, extractors, weber 45s, rebuilt by shaun maloney, not sure on the internals tho (ex owner had this done and 'estimates' power at 170bhp).

Cheers
Mat

[CLG]

Regarding your filter choices, definately stick with the Toyota item or the Ryco brand - these both have anti bleed devices in them, and given that your filter will be mounted upside down, any oil you can keep in the filter while letting the car sit, is a good thing. You can also soak the filter in a bit of oil to reduce knocking on initial oil change start up, though this is hard to do when you consider the mounting angle (personally, I fill every oil filter with enough oil before I install - some I can fill to the top, other only half way).

Regarding oil, i'm not prissy enough to sprout the virtues of synthetic oil or natural oil, or vice versa. Ideally, disregarding your preference for either, you need to pick an oil to suit your driving style - if it's basically daily driving the lightest oil you can comfortable use, will aid in economy, and provide suitable protection. if you'rea more spirited driver a higher viscosity oil will perform better at the warmer temperature of driving such a way - you need to decide what you're happy with?!

Personally, for all my daily drivers, I simply use Shell Helix, I can get 5L for $15, and considering I change my oil every 5000-8000Kms in those cars, it's fine for plodding round the streets. The better cars in my collection get anything from better mineral oils to synthetic oils too, and are changed much more regularly - I've even been known to change oil per event and sometimes even simply move the "good oil" onto the daily drivers.

Remember, oils are all brewed to a standard - the infomation will be on their packaging, and is a good indicator of their potential. Over time you'll develop an understanding of these ratings, if you can't - ask the sales staff - if they can't tell you, walk out (of Supercrap where you're being served by a 15 y/o), and find a decent parts store (Can I mention that I use and recommend Midland Auto One here?!!!).

[Vios-GT_07]

the first car i had had an 18R-C in it, and for all it's crappy condition i fed it 15W-40 mineral oil from repco, moving up to 15W-40 semi synthetic castrol magnatec.. revved happily on 40s and harder to rev on 20W-50s.. should be about the same but i'm told that 18R-Gs love 15W-40 just as well.. try semi synthetic or castrol magnatec.. and if it's not your preference, u can always change on the next oil change.. just been rebuilt = good for thinner oils

[dale30]

If you love your car the choices are limited.

Synthetic oil is not meant for older large tolerence motors like R's
R's have lots of oiler holes that bleed oil pressure. Thin oils will lower your oil pressure to much.
The crank needs to be suspended in oil not merley have oil pushed through it.

No1 choice is Penrite HPR !!!
HPR50 is the best choice as long as you warm the car up in the morning for a couple of minutes. ( which should be done anyway )
HPR30 if you you think your motor is very tight.
I have been using hpr for 20 years now after testing all sorts in my race cars.
There is another one called Penzoil ( yellow bottle) racing 50. If you get the one blended in the USA its equally good but 90% of it in aus is blended in Altona under license.DO NOT use it.

Do not be fooled OILS AINT OILS...

[3AMcobra]

Thanks heaps for the information guys. From all other sources ive looked at people vary from the Penrite, to Castrol GTX to the more expensive Mobil 1. I used to use Pennzoil 5w50 in my old car (s13 turbo), so i dont mind forking out for oil as long as its the best one for the job and will keep my ol' 18RG happy, so far since ive had her has been amazing, and would like to keep it that way

Suppose we should continue now with driving style in mind also as Clint said. So, brand, type, and your driving use/style (ie. daily, spirited daily , track, sits in garage half the week etc).

Cheers
Mat

[river]

Hi,

If your engine has been using mineral oil then it's best to stick with that. Over the years the mineral oil leaves deposits and residue on parts of the engine that can be cleaned away with a synthetic oil. These old deposits may be useful, epsecially around the rings - and if they are cleaned away you can have some issues with oil burn and other things.

It's not uncommon to have an engine that has well over 100,000km on it, using minearl based oil, and going fine - then changed to synthetic oil, only to have it run poorly, burn oil and require a major service.

This isn't an issue with synthetic oils (they're an excellent oil) - rather, it can be an issue when going from mineral to synthetic oils.

seeyuzz
river

[CLG]

Yep I agree with River's comments above - sometimes swapping can cause more concern than benefit. For my part, my oil type usages are:

Daily lappers: Shell helix - as I said cheap, and I've never had a problem given my regular oil changes
Street driven Turbo engines: Penrite HPR "Turbo" - I believe it's recently had it's name changed to HPR 15 (I think?!?) but it's basically the oil with a multi viscosity of 20W70 - can you tell it's been a while since I drove a turbo car with any regularity?!
Pride and Joy Turbo cars: anything from the Penrite mentioned above to Synthetic oils (Mobil 1 and Fuchs).

I will also admit a hesitation in using the Pennzoil products - I once had a newly rebuilt diff centre fail with the cause thought to be the oil (diff was professionally rebuilt and looked after). In trying to determine the cause of the failure we talked about oil - I mentioned it had the suitable Pennzoil product in there, to which his reply was "I only use Penrite" so now I do too!

[barned01]

my engine is an 18rgeu
i have been using penrite 15w50 i think it is in my car (i will confirm tonight, i think the bottle either said HPR15 or HPR30), i have compression of about 150psi dry on all my cylinders.
I recently replaced the rings and lower bearings (mains, big end), i don't have a drop of oil on my driveway but:
it does burn oil
it is a bit rattly sometimes on startup (not all the time though).

SO, I would like to stick to the penrite (mainly because it is an Australian company from my understanding and i like to support Australia) but i don't know if i need a thicker oil (to stop the burn) or a thinner oil (to assist quiet startup)

[3AMcobra]

Good point about the swapping, for this reason i contacted the ex owner, who informed me the engine oil brand was on a sticker on the windshield (d'oh!), checkd that, seems he's been using Penrite HPR15 which from wot ive read is a decent oil for the RG, so guess ill stick with that!

Cheers,
Mat

[kingmick]

was the block bored and honed? if not and you just reringed it you might have to big a clearance and or the rings didnt season.

[dale30]

Good point about the swapping, for this reason i contacted the ex owner, who informed me the engine oil brand was on a sticker on the windshield (d'oh!), checkd that, seems he's been using Penrite HPR15 which from wot ive read is a decent oil for the RG, so guess ill stick with that!

Cheers,
Mat

HPR15 is to light for an R...Or any motor of this vintage. Tolerences are to high.
Shoul be HPR30 at least.

[barned01]

honed and re-ringed. (assuming kingmick you are talking to me )
the rings were all within the tolerances albeit on the high side. the compression is even across all cylinders as well 150psi+/- 4PSI when cold and dry (i haven't bothered to do a warm test as those numbers were in tolerences already)
and yes it was HPR15 i was using as well.

[kingmick]

either they didnt season right or the oil is to thin if the clearances are right!. its a pain working it out sometimes.

[3AMcobra]

Thanks Dale30, ill keep that in mind, just not sure if i want to change to the hpr30 now since its been run on the 15 for its whole life since rebuild (approx 27,000kms ago).

[dale30]

Thanks Dale30, ill keep that in mind, just not sure if i want to change to the hpr30 now since its been run on the 15 for its whole life since rebuild (approx 27,000kms ago).

Thats OK but the more miles it does the looser it gets the thicker the oil needs to be.
Three seasons of 6500rpm's racing in the 18R and no wear at all....hpr50