Does this 7m still have life in it? (56k warning!)

[kemicalx]

Well my head is warped so it won't be getting used, however there is a guy in Adelaide with one in excellent condition for $100 so hopefully it won't cost too much to get shipped over.

mic* the sump was drained on wednesday, but the head gasket blew over a month ago so perhaps the oil and coolant has seperated? And sorry for the noobness but what is a VRS kit?

[mic*]

In a word - GASKETS.

Think it stands for Vavle ReSeating Kit,

manifolds & head etc

...emulsion wont separate like that. I did a good ol buik 3.8 V6 on the weekend that looked like it had been using 10 year old tan colour paint for lubricant. That thing had only been mixing em up for a few days too...

[M.J.H]

Can someone explain why the cheapest fix is gonna involve a new timing belt, rings, and bearings?

Looking at your oil, this car got put off the road immediately after it BHG. There is no emulsion whatsoever. The water and oil havent even mixed well for the 20mm or so in the middle of the bucket.

If you want to do it 100% guaranteed you would overhaul your bottom end, but there are plenty of BHG's that get water through the oil and end up back on the road better than ever (higher comp?) without going over bottom end. I wouldn expect to find anything at all wrong with your bottom end other than some superficial oxidation which will be nothing to worry about at all if you machine your head, clean the bores, get it back together & change your oil after it runs hot, and then again a few times in the first couple of thousand k's.

Since the tight budget seems your biggest limiting factor I would allow for;

-Get the head bathed, valves re-seated, and machined. (you could do the valves but for bugger all difference in charge just get it done).
-VRS kit. Never bought one for a 7M, but they came out in an MX83 aussie cres so should be much cheaper than a 1J or an RB25 kit for example.
-Oil & coolant
-Your time to carefully (painstakingly) clean the bores - without pulling it apart and machining it.
-Your time to re-fit the head.
<$500 + time. Not as guaranteed as bottomend overhaul - you get what you pay for.

The next step id be taking right now is, clean the block face & check it for warps... I think the result of that investigation might help u decide what to do.

Yeah you could go that way but considering the condition of the block why wouldn't you give it a light hone and freshen up the bottom end.
At least then it's all done in one go.

[mic*]

Yeah you could go that way but considering the condition of the block why wouldn't you give it a light hone and freshen up the bottom end.
At least then it's all done in one go.

I wholeheartedly agree, im really jus trying to point out where the bucks can be saved coz its freakin santa time, the guys just bought his wheels, and its rooted!

Its a trade off, but i think its his best one to get the car on the road and have it still run well.

If he was building it back up to race we wouldn even be having this conversation.

And if its only had a dry sump for two days, it'll be fine. It really doesnt look all that bad anyway below the bottom of the combustion chamber.

Jus as long as the block isnt warped...

Oh and kemicalx, head are commonly warped when you blow a head gasket. Its doesnt mean throw it out, it means get it machined. It happens so commonly that most ppl just get it machined regardless. Only if its real bad to the point were you have to shave too much off and your compression would be too high, or jackets & holes dont line up, would you not use it.

[kemicalx]

mmm the blokes who checked it out this morning said it would be an expensive job, as it would need to be straightened and then the valves guides wouldn't be correct and so too would need attention.

Any suggestions on removing the block, as the head is off i don't have the lifting points anymore and i really don't want to take out the gearbox with it (as the manual suggests) Is it possible to strap the block somehow, disconnect it from the gear box then pull the block forward off the input shaft and finally out the engine bay?

Oh and yer it lasted a whole 3 days before over heating and seizing about 130km away from home at midnight on a completely unlit and blind corner of the great ocean road, Great way to start a holiday in Apollo Bay

[mic*]

...I feel for you buddy

If the block is not warped, and i was aiming to get my car on the back on the road reliably for minimal cost, my engine would be staying in the bay.

Again, if you can afford to get it out and check out the bottom end, do it! Its always nice to know what you're working with, but with the pics you have shown, im not real worried about it ay.

The biggest thing that i cant really see is some of the water jacket holes seem blocked, but it may just be the appearance of the photo.

[M.J.H]

mmm the blokes who checked it out this morning said it would be an expensive job, as it would need to be straightened and then the valves guides wouldn't be correct and so too would need attention.

Any suggestions on removing the block, as the head is off i don't have the lifting points anymore and i really don't want to take out the gearbox with it (as the manual suggests) Is it possible to strap the block somehow, disconnect it from the gear box then pull the block forward off the input shaft and finally out the engine bay?

Oh and yer it lasted a whole 3 days before over heating and seizing about 130km away from home at midnight on a completely unlit and blind corner of the great ocean road, Great way to start a holiday in Apollo Bay

Damm shitty start to the holidays, sorry man.

as for getting the block out, just make sure the chain you use is large enough to fit a headbolt through and simply screw one in each end of the block.make sure you screw them in far enough, at least 3/4 of the thread in there.

[mic*]

If i wanted my car on the road reliably & cheaply my block wouldn be goin anywhere. Leave it in unless you're doing the whole bottom end armed with the abovementioned dollars.

As long as its not badly warped. Use a straight edge - perfectly straight, and a very fine grit paper, plug up the cylinders with microfibre rags that all the shit will stick to, and carefully clean the block face.

Im honestly not that worried about your bottom end having anything in there that wont get "machined" away by normal operation in the first few minutes of it running again. Its important to change your oil straight away for this reason. Even use some magnets to drag any possible FeO2 shit towards your sump plug before draining it (is a 7M sump baffled?)

[mic*]

Damm shitty start to the holidays, sorry man.

as for getting the block out, just make sure the chain you use is large enough to fit a headbolt through and simply screw one in each end of the block.make sure you screw them in far enough, at least 3/4 of the thread in there.

And then throw away those bolts...

And get a whole new set $$$

[pete05]

I would have thought a metal head gasket would be at the top of your parts list to keep it reliable, i have seen them on ebay in the US cheap and they are happy to import.

[Robbos_Toyotas]

use a 1m metal ruler to see if the block's flat........

[M.J.H]

While we all would like to see the job done and on the road and going again maybe this is the easiest and overall cheapest option for the young fellow.

http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=739

just throwing another idea out there.

[kemicalx]

mm another motor intirely would be great, though i really want to get a metal head gasket and ARP studs, and that would add another $400 to the $850 starting price, then more again to get the motor to Geelong, I have an EMS dualsport and an intercooler to install when it's going again and will be getting the typical 3" exhaust system, so i'll be increasing the boost to 10-12psi and want to ensure i don't have another blow out,

So my plan of action is as follows,

Buy other head - $100 + $50-$100 shipping prolly
Buy cometic MHG - $200ish
Buy ARP studs - ~$200
Get metal rule and test block for straightness, if ok
Jack car up and remove sump,
Inspect best i can the condtions in there, if ok reattach sump
Clean surface with gasket remover and fine grit paper (how fine exactly 1200 or something?)
Clean up water galleries best as possible
hone cylinder walls (anyone got a "how to" on this? Especially with the pistons and everything still in there )
fill bottom end with cheapo oil, drain,
then begin the rebuild

My only concern is the piston rings, being cast and submerged for as long as they were i think they are most likely cactus. Is there any way of testing them besides rebuilding the whole thing then compression testing the cylinders

[M.J.H]

mm another motor intirely would be great, though i really want to get a metal head gasket and ARP studs, and that would add another $400 to the $850 starting price, then more again to get the motor to Geelong, I have an EMS dualsport and an intercooler to install when it's going again and will be getting the typical 3" exhaust system, so i'll be increasing the boost to 10-12psi and want to ensure i don't have another blow out,

So my plan of action is as follows,

Buy other head - $100 + $50-$100 shipping prolly
Buy cometic MHG - $200ish
Buy ARP studs - ~$200
Get metal rule and test block for straightness, if ok
Jack car up and remove sump,
Inspect best i can the condtions in there, if ok reattach sump
Clean surface with gasket remover and fine grit paper (how fine exactly 1200 or something?)
Clean up water galleries best as possible
hone cylinder walls (anyone got a "how to" on this? Especially with the pistons and everything still in there )
fill bottom end with cheapo oil, drain,
then begin the rebuild

My only concern is the piston rings, being cast and submerged for as long as they were i think they are most likely cactus. Is there any way of testing them besides rebuilding the whole thing then compression testing the cylinders

You can't hone the cylinders with the pistons still in place as the hone needs to get all the cylinder wall.You need a drill and some kero in a sqiurty bottle or just poke a hole in the lid of a plastic bottle if need be.Squirt some kero on the cylinder walls and once the drill starts going move it up and down while kepping the bore lubed.You want to get a nice cross hatch pattern like this http://toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=838(look for the pic of the bore,it's got some wear but you can clearly see the cross hatch pattern)and when you stop the drill remove the hone while it is still rotating or it will leave some marks that you don't want.
regardless of the water the rings will have lost most of their spring tension from bieng overheated and thus won't seal very well.
Some 320- wet and dry should be fine for the block to get most of the deposits off then go up to a higher grade to get a nice finish.I just used to use the gasket remover pads you can buy that go on the end of a die grinder but they can be a bit harsh sometimes.
You can probably get the sump off in the car but will need to undo the eng mounts and lift it as high as you can to get enough clearance to get past the cross member.
With the sump off you should probably undo one of the big ends and check the condition of the bearing and crank (post pics if need be get an opinion).At the least you will need to remove the pistons to hone it so why not throw some new big end bearings in while it's apart.If the old ones are okay then the main bearings are likely to be still servicable and won't need to do anything with them.

Thats all i can think of for now.Good luck.

[kemicalx]

you guys are all legends thanks for all the help your giving me on this