2tg - playing with cam adjustments - help!!

[sillycar chick]

Chain noise is back....

Had little hints it was there the other day, but it has been slowly getting more prominent and even moreso after the dyno today.

Apparantly you can also lose 10HP if your chain is stretched

Anyways, its going to cost me almost $500 (yeah, thats just the parts, luckily im changing it myself!!) for 2 new chains and all the guides, some more debt... dont yous just love cars?

I am going to attempt to change the chain by dropping down the sump, pulling off the timing cover and leaving the head in place... but if it doesnt work I am going to have a spare head gasket if needed.

Hopefully I can get the parts before next weekend and get it done. Wish me luck

[river]

Hi,

Sorry to hear that, but hopefully it will fix your noise up and get you those extra horses.

Let me inform you that while a car can burn a hole in your pocket, a house is a veritable blackhole for taking your money..... oh and then kids can make the fund-draining house seem like loose change!!!

seeyuzz
river

[sillycar chick]

Let me inform you that while a car can burn a hole in your pocket, a house is a veritable blackhole for taking your money..... oh and then kids can make the fund-draining house seem like loose change!!!

You are a wise, wise man river. At least my car doesnt back-chat like kids do, hey river

[o_man_ra23]

Dana,
Do it with the head off. Having had plenty of experience doing it both ways, I can tell you that you have a 90% chance of having a foulcan oil leak when done (top of the timing cover for those who have never owned/worked on foul cans) if you dont change the head gasket. I assure you that the drip of oil that weeped from your timing tensioner will be the money pit of the car, and the oil leak of the timing cover will be the money pit of kids. Do it right this time, that way you wont be kicking yourself later (or spending the rest of the afternoon changing the head gasket).

Cheers, Owen

[sillycar chick]

Need help!! Just got all the parts to do this thing, but of course cos the timing chains are aftermarket, the links arent marked to line up where to dots. Can anyone provide a photo of where these are or a sketch or something? I wanna get this right. I have an old genuine chain somewhere, but of course i cant find it right now

[o_man_ra23]

i did a writeup of how to do it without the shiny links somewhere... basically get your pistons at TDC, cams at TDC (line the notches up with the arrows on the cam caps) and put it all together. If you want to do it properly, you will get a dial indicator with magnetic base, degree wheel and youll work it out based on cam overlap and your desired rev range... but thats a lot more work (gives great results when done though). Basically, when you pull the motor apart, rotate the engine so that the cams are as I have said with the notches at the top, make note of where the dizzy is pointing, and when you put it all back together you wont have a problem. You may have to adjust the cam gear position (via the 4 hole pin adjusters) a few times, but its still a peice of cake. If you want more info on that, email me at [email protected], and ill draw up a few diagrams etc to help out.

Cheers, Owen

[sillycar chick]

Too late, she's already in bits!!! so someone's going to have to tell me where to mark my new chain!!!

[BigBadBenny]

Dana,
I have a manual that your welcome to borrow so that you can sort out your chain issues.
Just PM me and we'll arrange something from then. I'm availible all weekend.
Regards
Benny

[sillycar chick]

THanks for the offer, I already have a toyota manual, but it doesnt tell you exactly where the silver links are in the timing chain, cos all standard toyota chains have them. My chains are aftermarket so I dont know where to mark the shiney links on my new chain, as the toyota chain I had here has gone missing

[BigBadBenny]

Dana,
the marks are really not neccessary, I am assuming that you already have the lower chain already installed and are just stumped with the upper chain?....
well the upper chain is easy, well not as easy as the lower, but still it's not rocket science.
setup up your motor so that it is on TDC (key way on the crank should be faceing upwards. Now on the head there is a chain guide that runs between the two cams, remove this for the time being. got the gears off the cams yet?..well do it now.
now your ready to get serious. You now need to lock the cams so that they don't turn, because they will turn, maybe get someone with two spanners to hold them. there are many various ways to stop them from moving.
now run the chain around the dummy cam and throw in a cam gear so as to install it onto the exhaust cam. What you want here is no slack between the exhaust and the dummy cam, move the cam gear around on the chain until you get it to line up with a pin hole, (dial in the cams later), Now throw in the intake cam gear and do the same to line up the pin hole. this should technically be all in time. Now put in your tensionor to take up the slack in the chain, Now put the guide in (inbetween the cams)
You can tell who ever is holding the cams that they can let go now.
now put a spanner on the crank and turn it around clockwise once, check your marks on your crank and cams, they should all be were they are supposed to be,
If not, remove the tensioner and remove the cam gear which ever is out so that it is correct.
Any other questions I'm happy to answer.
Regards
Ben

[sillycar chick]

Just to close off this thread, was busy on the weekend pulling my engine to bits again.

I replaced both chains and all the guides, which wasnt really all that bad, I must be getting good at working on this engine

And yes Oman, I ended up taking off the head I was going to cheat and not take the head off, only to discover it cant be done anyway. The guide attached to the front timing cover protrudes up through the head so you cant get it out anyway without taking off the head

But now she is nice and quiet. The bit that took the longest was cleaning head gasket material off the head and shim that took hours!!

Now she is back on the road, and I didnt have any problems with it so I am quite happy. The only part that annoyed me was having to pull out the dizzy all over again (it was expected) but now my nice dyno tune is wasted. I cant seem to get it as good as it was after the dyno, just doesnt have the punch it had Cant complain tho, first attempt at static timing a dizzy on my own and I did it!! Then I timed it with a light and set it to 15 deg advanced, but its still not quite right.

Oh well, I had fun anyways, even with my new collection of cuts and bruises!

[o_man_ra23]

Your cam timing will be out a bit, back to the dyno, and play with the cam timing. Alter the timing of the cams individually, and also the dizzy timing etc. From there, MARK YOUR TIMING ADVANCE FOR FUTURE REFERENCE on the timing case/crank pulley (whichever has the degree marks for the 2T). The cam timing will give you the greatest amount of possibility for power improvement. Good to hear shes running good tho.

PS ive done it without taking the head off before, removing and re installing the swinging slipper CAN be done, but is not advised.

Cheers, Owen

[sillycar chick]

So are you saying then the 4 holes in the cam gears with the dowel pins in them will need to be changed around to suit the new chains?

Anyone in Brisbane area who can do this for me? The dyno tuner I went to specialises in carbies and injection, they said they dont really play around with cams.

[o_man_ra23]

do it yourself. They will need to be changed around to suit the unstretched chain yes. Play with it, see what feels good. Better still, there is a great book called 21st century performance, which details how to set cam timing using a dial indicator ($40), magnetic base ($20-30) and a degree wheel ($30-40) which shows where to set your cams to for the performance you desire. Its too detailed for me to regurgitate, but the book explains it really well. After you set the cams, then go back to the dyno to get the carbs and dizzy re-worked to suit the new cam timing... the difference should be very remarkable.

Cheers, Owen

[sillycar chick]

Hmmm sounds like more money if I do it myself, and Im not going to have the time to do it before the 5th July, which was when I was planning on going down the 1/4 in it

If it has to go to a dyno anyways, I may as well try to find one who can set-up my cams for me, then tune it to suit, as it probably would work out more cost effective. I just dont have that much money left to throw at it, but dont really have the time either. It would probably take a while to do since I am unexperienced at it.



This is where the cam gears are currently set (intake - dowel in 1st hole from left, exhaust - dowel in 2nd hole from the left). I set them to where they were with the old chain. I have searched and searched (old and new forums) and have read that I can get more by advancing the intake and retarding the exhaust, but is this going to solve my problem or work on my engine? I really have no idea!!