3sgte rwd sump

[3jcelica]

Hi,

I have a st185 motor I am converting to rwd, looking into the sump, everyone seems to be using the 2s with a 2s pickup cutting the sump up to give extra volume trap doors etc.

Trying to work out what the advantages are of the 2s sump, as opposed to the 3sgte(gen2) sump, if you are going to cut it up anyway, chances are you are going to have to rework the pickup also to use the modified sump.

maybe I am missing something?

Roger

[Shifty]

Good question, I'm interested myself. I took it that the 2S sump allowed you to fit without modification, but if people are modifying them then you would have to ask why bother (unless they're closer to the shape you want)

Out of interest if you have any good links on 3SGTE-> RWD they would be appreciated... I'm about 1% considering using one but it sounds all too difficult.

[thechuckster]

I think it's the ease of conversion, e.g. SA63 cross member, 2S sump & pickup & engine mounts, and that's the bottom bit sorted out (I'm doing 3SGE into RA65).

If you were going racing/rallying, then some sump mods would be on the cards anyway.

[Shifty]

Chuck, I think old mate was saying that all the 2S sumps seem to be modified as well hence there being no point starting with 2S instead of 3S.

[essaysixtythree]

2s sump is flat on the bottom where as the 3s sump is slanty if you have mounted the motor upright. So if you use the 3s sump and oil pick up you will have to cut and shut them to change the angle rather than just adding wings to the 2s for extra volume.

[essaysixtythree]

You have to modify the 2s sump for extra volume lest the engine starve whilst going round a long right hand corner as the 3s only has oil drain holes on the right side of the block. So yes either way something has to be modified.

[3jcelica]

thechuckster,

There maybe an argument for simply conversion sake i.e replacing a 2s, however my understanding is you will still need sump mods due to the head drainage issue, as mentioned by essaysixtythree.

essaysixtythree,

ok, I see a clear argument that wings may be easier than doing a larger sump mod. I am intending to redo the full front of the sump anyway therfore it sounds like the 3s sump and pickup won't be an issue.

thanks for you input guys

Roger

[Celica RA45]

on the 2s sump if you can baffle a std 1 it will be ok

[Celica RA45]

and motor need 1 drainage at the back near disy and also between no 2 and 3 cyl on exhaust side dash 10 will do it and return out side to sump .use to do this on my gen 2 3sge race motor

[beerhead]

My sump is made from a standard 3S sump, I cut and folded the lumps I didn't need and welded them flat on the base. Big winged pan.

2S sumps are junk, no windage tray is integrated, after having a go both ways before being happy with the result - start with a 3S sump, as the windage tray from a 3S sump didn't fit in the 2S base properly. There's bolt on windage trays that attach to the engine block, but I didn't feel like tapping holes in the block to mount them.

The other alternative I have never seen mentioned is a 1999 Spacia RWD 3SFE sump with integrated windage tray and the same volume as a 3SGE. I was quoted $350 - 400 mark brand new from Toyota ex Japan. Has a bit of baffling unlike the 2S sump.

[toygt]

the way some guys do it here in chch is to use the bottom half and pan and pick up from an altezza 3sge also the alt and bracket if that helps

[2004lowlux]

The other alternative I have never seen mentioned is a 1999 Spacia RWD 3SFE sump with integrated windage tray and the same volume as a 3SGE. I was quoted $350 - 400 mark brand new from Toyota ex Japan. Has a bit of baffling unlike the 2S sump.[/QUOTE]

seen a spacia at pick n payless today i was severly tempted to grab the sump off it for future use
would the 3s-fe cam cover and intake manifold work on the 3s-gte?

[thechuckster]

If you're back at PnP, a pic of the spacia sump would be very helpful.

it would be a handy if the manifold swapped over, but the gaskets suggest you'd need an adaptor plate and it would be a restriction if used on an NA race motor or a turbo. However, for a cheap-and-nasty RWC conversion of a 3SGE motor, it would get you started. No idea about the cam cover - would suggest you pinch the gasket/seal from the 3SFE unit and see how it sits on a 3SGE/GTE head & cam cover.

Camry 3SFE gasket

gen 1 3SGTE gasket

(the lower 3SGTE gasket goes between the runners and the TVIS plate)

[beerhead]

Pics say it all, if you mod an FE head for performance you need to fill and redrill the so the ports are centered on the valve. I've done piles of research on the spacia gear.

Good Bits

-Sump (windage tray etc etc)
-cast RWD 3SFE exhaust manifold fits the 3SGE gen1 and 2
-throwout bearing is 10mm thicker (replaces the cast housing and tap on bearing and fixes the shave the 2S/Y bellhousing issue)
-Oil pump and CAS fits

Bad Bits
-RWD rear water housing wrap around (doesn't have same stud spacing as a GE)
-Intake is no good
-3SFE has 1 more tooth on the crank - need 3S beams or caldina crank pulley on 3SGE (or a file and much patience) for RWD setup (works with wasted spark)


You could easily use all the bolt on spacia electrics, manifold and ecu on a 5SFE camry motor in RWD. (Get a late model camry coil pack ecu for it though or steal its electrics)

[3jcelica]

beerhead,

Disregard below I think I was looking at the wrong engine doh.

the spacia sump on toyodiy looks like it would be suited to an engine that leans to the exhaust side as opposed to either straight up and down or to the intake side slightly. Hence would require modification similar to 3s sump anyway. However I could be looking at the wrong thing.Roger