Implementing Knock control on Wolf v4

[shelldrake]

Hey guys,

I was looking into how to setup the wolf to step in under conditions where detonation occurs. Although I understand that if an ecu has been well tuned you should really never experience it. However, I guess the reason a factory ecu will step in if pinging is detected would confirm that there are some conditions that cannot for easily tuned for. ie bad fuel. So, after building a nice new motor up, I would really like to avoid destroying it.

The wolf has an ignition trim table that will take a 0-5v input, and can advance or retard the timing according to how you set the map up. **It's my understanding that a knock sensor itself will generate a small voltage caused by the frequency at will engine pinging occurs on a particular engine. *They are specific to types of motors (I guess bore size and stroke are relevant(?)

**Please note - Let me know if I'm misinformed about this.

My question is, with a one wire 4age knock sensor, can I connect this directly to the specified input pin on the wolf? Will it limit voltage itself? Or is there more to it?

Thanks in Advance.

***Should also add, the reason I'm asking here is because I couldn't find a similar thread and thought others may benefit - Plus Wolf now charge $57 a month to answer your tech questions. I just want one answered

[NME308]

Interesting thought you have there...

As soon as I read the first line or two of your post I immediatly thought of my Motec M4 and it has similar igniton trim function!

The one wire knock sensor from the 4age you refer to - is that one wire in total, or do you have to supply it power and earth?

What needs to be known is the voltages the sensor puts out and under what 'knock' conditions. I know nothing of the volts a knock sensor outputs so you may need some sort of amplifier. If the sensor voltages are high enough to meaningfully programme in your ecu then you need to know for your own engine what range of this voltage is in actual knock territory!

Hmmmmm... You've got me thinking!

Cheers,
Jason

[shelldrake]

Actually, you triggered another thought. You wouldn't be able to trim out the other normal noises from the motor... More thought required...

[shelldrake]

You might be able to use this -

http://www.motec.com.au/skm/skmoverview/

Maybe I could too... But it'd be better if I could make my current ecu do it...

[thechuckster]

you also need to know the frequency at which your motor will be producing knock sounds and have a sensor to suit. fwiw: the devices are usually piezoelectric transducers.

Someone who's already done some of the work for you: http://www.viatrack.ca/

[OnAll-FOUR]

Hey guys,

I was looking into how to setup the wolf to step in under conditions where detonation occurs. Although I understand that if an ecu has been well tuned you should really never experience it. However, I guess the reason a factory ecu will step in if pinging is detected would confirm that there are some conditions that cannot for easily tuned for. ie bad fuel. So, after building a nice new motor up, I would really like to avoid destroying it.

The wolf has an ignition trim table that will take a 0-5v input, and can advance or retard the timing according to how you set the map up. **It's my understanding that a knock sensor itself will generate a small voltage caused by the frequency at will engine pinging occurs on a particular engine. *They are specific to types of motors (I guess bore size and stroke are relevant(?)

**Please note - Let me know if I'm misinformed about this.

My question is, with a one wire 4age knock sensor, can I connect this directly to the specified input pin on the wolf? Will it limit voltage itself? Or is there more to it?

Thanks in Advance.

***Should also add, the reason I'm asking here is because I couldn't find a similar thread and thought others may benefit - Plus Wolf now charge $57 a month to answer your tech questions. I just want one answered

It has been done, and some guys on the www.hybridz.ord have implemented a knock sensor with their wolf ECU.

However I think the biggest issue is that the sensor is a piezoelectric sensor, and simple direct input won't really work, you need some signal processing on the end of it.

I have also seen other people use their old ecu just to do the signal processing on the the factory knock sensor, and then use an output form that to go into an aftermarket ecu.

[shelldrake]

It has been done, and some guys on the www.hybridz.ord have implemented a knock sensor with their wolf ECU.

However I think the biggest issue is that the sensor is a piezoelectric sensor, and simple direct input won't really work, you need some signal processing on the end of it.

I have also seen other people use their old ecu just to do the signal processing on the the factory knock sensor, and then use an output form that to go into an aftermarket ecu.

Hey guys. Thanks for your input. *(there's a coincidental pun in there that deserves some neg rep)

I wonder what is required for the factory ecu to run tge logic... I also wonder how that logic could be viewed to determine the parameters in which it uses to run the control...

Apparently jaycar sell a kit that may work with aftermarket ems, sooo that would be a win.

Re: determining the right range, might need to just take it to a tuner who has the headphone kit and get it trimmed up by him.

[JP]

you will need an external knock amplifier with a 0-5V output to feed to the wolf.

On some other ECU's that can accept a 0-5V input for knock sensing, you also have to configure the window start degree's, window length, ignition retard limit, retard gain, advance delay (for systems that can reintroduce timing after the knock goes away), advance rate, low and high RPM lockouts and throttle position lockouts... Thats on top of the basic config of the knock amplifier.

Plenty of info around on the net regarding knock amp's, one place you can start is here: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/...nual.htm#knock

[shelldrake]

I reckon you're on the money Chuckster. This bit of kit is exactly what I want. I'm not going to try and re-invent the wheel. SOLD on this!

Thanks JP - With the knocksense unit controlling the filtering and amplified knock output, the wolf may be able to control the others...