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Thread: 5SGTE, what block to use?

  1. #1
    Your mum is a Conversion King TERRA Operative's Avatar
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    Default 5SGTE, what block to use?

    I have in my driveway, a 5SFE block and a gen 4 3SGTE head.
    I was planning on mating them together to produce a 5SGZE for my Corolla. (It'll be getting a screw type supercharger).

    Now, I have heard different things regarding the block to use.

    One side is saying to use the 3S block with 5S crank with custom pistons and rods
    The other is saying to use the 5S block and install oil squirters along with a bit more machining here and there etc (also custom pistons and rods IIRC)

    From what I gather, the 5S will require more machine work but is a stronger block with nicer casting.


    Can anyone shed some light onto the details of this conversion? I want to get down to the fine details of what's needed to ensure I can build the strongest base for my engine.
    I planned to aim for 350Kw, but was told that was not going to end up with a daily street drivable engine, so I lowered my aim to 200kW, but apparently could easily get more...



    I need help.

  2. #2
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    i suppose the different boost additive makes it hard for people to gauge what HP you'll easily make.

    but 200kw out of a stock stroke 3s with ct20b turbo is child's play. have a look in the 3s dyno thread. think cut's made that on his relatively stock gen3 with ign upgrades. plenty on the mr2 forums get that, even on the gen2's with hiflowed or ct20b's and engine management.

    with the added 200cc you should be able to get that easy.

    the best way to do any stroker is to use the appropriate 5s sized rods and pistons. until recently it was only pauter that made them(but it's an off the shelf size so you can get them cheaper than their list price) but know i've ssen 5s rods on ebay...dunno how good they are tho.

    the other way is to machine down the big ends to suit 3s rods, but you still need the 5S stroker pistons from CP as the crown height is lower in the 5s pistons obviously cause the crank stroke pushes the piston higher up the bore.....

    also the 5s block has a bigger bore, if you go 3s block you'll still be limited to 86.5 bore, you can get 1mmOS piston's but then your making it easier for you to encounter the whole bore's cracking issue which is why people go the 5s block.

    also you can have the pauter rods with oil relief grooves machined into the big end which supposedly squirt's the expended oil up under the pitons, still not as much as the 3s squirter's.

    another thing, the CP piston's aren't custom, they have them as a listed size and cost the same as their 3s pistons

  3. #3
    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    altho it only lists 3s rods/piston's they'll do the same price for the 5s rods and pistons as they're both an on shelf part from the suppliers. i've used these guy's they're good.

    http://realstreetperformance.com/sto...d76dd75e3a8d2c

  4. #4
    Your mum is a Conversion King TERRA Operative's Avatar
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    Yea, I was looking at using the CP pistons. How good are they?

    So, all other things being equal, If I were to use a 5S block with squirters and a 3S block, which will prove stronger?
    I can get a set of squiters to be installed into the 5S block. Plus I already have the 5S block here...

  5. #5
    how much is Too Much Toyota JustenGT8's Avatar
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    5S block, Gen 4 head, that rod/piston combo (rods not needed but may as well seeing you need pistons to suit the new valve angles) and a decent twin screw SC. 300kw @ the fly would be easy enough and fine (if not a little wild) for a daily.

    Not a cheap exercise though? Turbo 4AGE should be enough for just about anything you'd want to do? and a shitload cheaper

    EDIT squirters aren't needed unless you're looking at a full track car doing 30+ laps events
    Lily Simpson 6.7.2010
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    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    ?the 4th gen head's have the same valve angle as the gen3's dont they? thought only the beams head's had diff valve angles?

    CP pistons are one of the best/all you'll need.

    5s block without squirters will be better than the 3s block with squirter's for your build imho. but if you have hte coin to fit squirters properly then do it as then it's there for when you throw something more hardcore at it.

    5s block is stronger than the 3s

  7. #7
    you can't say ****** here Automotive Encyclopaedia CLG's Avatar
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    Yep, I've been hoarding 5S short motors too - siamesed bores make them a dump load stronger than the 3S blocks. When I clear a few more projects, I'll look further into the rod/piston conundrum and final build specs, so will keep a subscription to this thread.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    I'm not a fan of turbo. I've driven a few turboed vehicles and I don't really like the characteristics of the power delivery.
    I'm just a supercharger fanboi I guess, plus what's cooler and more unique than a stroked and supercharged 3S?

    Money isn't much of an issue, it'll just push back the clubman build that's coming next (gotta find a use for the 4AGZE that the 3S is replacing)...


    I'm thinking I'll go for the 5S block, but I'll stick the squirters in to be sure the pistons are kept cool. I can get a set easily and I would rather over engineer the engine than take a chance.




    I'll keep this thread updated. I'll be straight into the build once we reassemble my brothers Sera that's getting a ground up restoration.

  9. #9
    how much is Too Much Toyota JustenGT8's Avatar
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    If money's not an issue then squirters for sure Crank girdle and dry sump as well

    You'll need a trick IC system too so look into the laminova air/water setups as they suit SC best. Or a really gun 4 port water/meth injection setup should get you by.

    It's all pretty straight forward, just a decent machinist/engine builder and deep pockets required
    Lily Simpson 6.7.2010
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    Junior Member Automotive Encyclopaedia
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    good to hear, so what head work you planning as well....wish i could say money isnt much of an issue...care to share?

    i've gone supertech 1mmOS valve's with Ti retainers, dual valve springs and 1zz shimless buckets. HKS 272's.

    any idea on where your gonna fit a big arse PD charger?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    Quote Originally Posted by JustenGT8 View Post
    If money's not an issue then squirters for sure Crank girdle and dry sump as well
    heck...just get a 503E if money isn't an issue

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    Crank girdle is a goer, dry sump is a bit crazy for a road car, but we'll see.

    I'm contemplating using Beams Ti valve gear in the head (shimless buckets are a goer too), pending fitment. Any ideas on this?

    The charger will go under the intake manifold in the same spot as the 4AGZE. The power steering pump that would sit there is gone and I'll be using the stock AE101 pump that sits next to the exhaust cam pulley.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    gen4 or st215 caldina turbo motor will have a stronger block ,better upgrade from st205 motor uses all of the same parts ,but new head has crank and cam sensors and cop
    also beams ti valves will not fit to tall and smaller dia stem
    gen 4 are shim under bucket as well
    Last edited by Celica RA45; 27-06-2010 at 06:21 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    Is it possible to use the beams valve guides and shorten the Ti valves to suit?

  15. #15
    Hopefully soon a 5S-GTE Chief Engine Builder MWP's Avatar
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    Default Re: 5SGTE, what block to use?

    I keep hearing that the +98 5S blocks are the best to get as they are a tad stronger, and have a larger oil pump.
    I dont know if thats true though...

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