2jzgte fly by wire?

[Shifty]

hey guys

i've read that all vvti 2jzgte engines are also fly by wire. can anyone confirm/deny, and does anyone know if this is removable with the stock ecu (eg. bolt on non-vvti manual throttle & tps)?

can vvti fly by wire be removed, with the stock ecu? eg bolting on front from non-vvti plenum to use manual throttle & that tps?

out of interest a few pics showing the xylophone buggery that is fly by wire, attached to the throttle body:

http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/67/75/1017657_600.jpg
http://www.japanpowerinc.com/images/...re_085_tmp.jpg

[JP]

Yes it's drive-by-wire, although it's a little different as it uses a cable from the cabin to control it still. The throttle request sensor is built into the throttle body, I believe Wilbo modified his so the throttle plate was actuated directly by welding something up in the DBW part. I dont think his ever worked 100% on the stock ECU though which is why he's installing an adaptronic.

I got rid of the DBW setup on my vvti 2J by bolting up a non-vvti 2JZGTE upper plenum and throttle body etc.

One of the issues you'll run into if you do the plenum and throttle swap with stock ECU is idle control. The DBW setup controls idle via the throttle body, the non-DBW setup uses a traditional JZ ISCV at the rear end of the plenum.

I didn't have to worry about the DBW 2J ECU as I'm using an aftermarket ECU to run the show (Vipec V88 most likely, maybe an Adaptronic E1280S though), I also got rid of the TRAC from the non-vvti throttle I used by throwing it in the lathe and parting it off shorter which helped with a less-sharp bend for the cooler pipe.

http://www.purcellperformance.com/cressy/bay3.JPG

[Shifty]

JP, thanks for your response.

I'd want to do something similar to yourself re: ditching the whole job and bolting up the non-vvti gear, but would definitely want to run the stock ecu.

Perhaps swapping the ECU to an earlier one as well might be the best option. Interested to know if anyone can confirm if the looms are the same (or very close) so that you can just plug in the non-vvti ecu. I have no interest in running an aftermarket ECU, that's the whole point of using a 2j - doesn't need built bottom end or aftermarket ecu.

[JP]

I'm 90% sue you cant use an earlier ECU. The vvti 2J's were all DBW, if you want to ditch the VVTI actuation and use a non-VVTI ECU then you will also need to change to the non-vvti 2J coil and ignitor setup as the newer engine runs a waste spark setup. The vvti engine also only runs one cam trigger which has a different output to the older 2J, I didn't bother to check but I'd guess the crank trigger is different too.

One advantage of going with an aftermarket ECU on the DBW vvti 2J is you can then run a MAP sensor and no longer be limited by the MAF with a big single etc.

[jzk25]

Can't use the non vvti ecu, different crank and cam triggers. VVT has a 36-2 crank and 3 lobe cam sensor. Non VVT is 24 tooth crank and 2 x 1tooth cam sensors.

Might be able to use a VVTi 1JZ loom with a PFC but vvti's have airflow meters so are shit anyway.
Use your E420C to run it.

[Shifty]

def want to run stock ecu, it's too good NOT to and it's part of the attraction (shit look at denis' car). if i can't, i'll just get a 147 rather than a 160

alternatively... how hard would it be to put the whole dbw setup into a different car? i assume it just has some wires and shit and you can bring them across with the 2j loom, and assume you need to use the 2j pedal

[wilbo666]

I don't understand why you need to ditch the FBW if you're running the stock ECU?

It worked fine for me

The FBW 'demand' sensor is on the side of the throttle body, you just connect a throttle cable up as normal and the ECU reads this sensor to work out how depressed the throttle is!

In normal operation the ECU drives the throttle and picks up its actual position with a sensor on the other side, compares this to the demand sensor and takes into account any other items it needs to (trac, cruise control, idle speed, etc).

You don't need a special pedal or cable at all! It's simple

JP is also right in that there is a 'failsafe' function in that if the FBW motor fails the cable can actuate the throttle maybe 10-20% right at the end of the throttle pedal travel. I played with modifing one in the thought that I would keep the FBW throttle body and just run a cable... however in the end I also switched to a non-vvti upper intake plenum



A pretty large list of reasons why you can't just put a non-vvti ECU on also as stated...

ECU plugs are different, triggering is different, no ISCV (done via the TBW throttle!), etc, etc



Cheers
Wilbo

[jzk25]

I wouldn't assume that you will be getting the same flexibility from a std vvt 2JZ ecu as you do with the non vvt ecu. The vvt uses an airflow meter instead of map, this will be a limiting factor. As will the DBW I expect.
If this is to go into a foreign vehicle and must use factory ecu then get a jzs147 engine and box.

[thechuckster]

i think the vvti ECU has to use MAF as well as MAP as moving the cams around does funky things to manifold pressure/vacuum (making a speed-density fuel equation reliant on a MAP signal a lot more difficult).

[Shifty]

yeah starting to sound like 147 is go, this jzk guy knows his shit haha

chuck.. afm AND map? fark me, way to go toyota!

[wilbo666]

I wouldn't assume that you will be getting the same flexibility from a std vvt 2JZ ecu as you do with the non vvt ecu. The vvt uses an airflow meter instead of map, this will be a limiting factor. As will the DBW I expect.
If this is to go into a foreign vehicle and must use factory ecu then get a jzs147 engine and box.

Just for some info Scrumdidlyumptious's 2JZGTE VVTi with a T78 on it makes 326rwkw with the factory AFM and emanage...


In what way do you expect the FBW to be a limitation? I once went for a drive with the multimeter connected to the TPS that shows the actual throttle opening and found that it simply followed the accelerator pedal...


It depends what you're after Leigh... planing to keep the stock turbo's or?

Cheers
Wilbo

[jzk25]

Has anyone run a vvti with 550's and an safc? I am not saying that the vvt management can't make power, I am just saying that the non vvt ecu can and does consistently. You aren't really gaining much by using a vvt engine so why complicate it.

The DBW probs I foresee would be to do with faults occurring due to missing sensors or signals which could result in limited throttle openings. This isn't going to happen with a factory setup but could definitely occur in a conversion.

[wilbo666]

Has anyone run a vvti with 550's and an safc? I am not saying that the vvt management can't make power, I am just saying that the non vvt ecu can and does consistently. You aren't really gaining much by using a vvt engine so why complicate it.

Nope can't say I do know of anyone running a SAFC on a VVTi 2JZ...

If he is planning to keep the stock turbos though it wouldn't really be an issue I would have thought


I do agree tho, there isn't much to be gained from getting a VVTi 2jz as opposed to that without VVTi

The DBW probs I foresee would be to do with faults occurring due to missing sensors or signals which could result in limited throttle openings. This isn't going to happen with a factory setup but could definitely occur in a conversion.

I did a conversion (JZS161 into JZA80 prev NA) and kept the FBW and didn't have any issues with it personally, even with an Auto ECU running manual... I did have issues with it being down on power due to I suspect timing / auto ECU running manual so I gave up on the factory ECU. I am still in the process of putting an Adaptronic e420c on it



Anyway just wanted to add my first hand experience and 2c

Cheers
Wilbo

[Shifty]

stock turbos, stock management

[mr75]

Ok so i have a 2jzgte vvti with a single on it and have been offered a 2jzgte non vvti loom and link g3 ecu. To run the FBW what would i need to change on the ecu?

Also since i have the 36-2 trigger wheel do i just need to program the ecu to read different input pulse? And then delete the extra cam trigger?