manaul 2jz on a budget?

[Shakotan_Aaron]

hey guys.

been researching this a bit.

id really like to go manual when i put the 2jz in my mx83.

so here is what i have come up with so far, need to know if i can cut some costs anywhere...

W55/7 (same as 58 except for the ratios)
2jzge flywheel
new exedy OEM clutch
ma70 pedal box
2jzge bellhousing


Q1: what tailshaft will be needed to "bolt in" if there is a bolt in option? celica/ma61 supra front half with cressida rear half??? maybe?

Q2: are 1jz R154 and 2jzge manual flywheels interchangeable??

Q3: will a standard 2jzge clutch be fine with a GTE? it wont be launched, dragged or drifted. motor will be kept standard.

Q4: are R154 and W5x outputs the same?

Q5: are all W55/6/7/8 interchangeable as far as bellhousings/ in and output splines are conserned?

thanks in advance

[big_zop]

Not sure about the clutch and flywheel interchangability, but you can use a Z20/A70 front half of the tailshaft if the donor also came with a W5x series box (the same as what you do if the donor was a R154). I believe you have to swap the centre bearing to the Cressida one, but have yet to do this so cant confirm.

Though you may get some comments about it not lasting, but it all depends how you drive it. My old car was Daihatsu Charade so not too extreme on the power front but i have had the car for 150,000kms without changing the clutch and im pretty sure it is still the original (its near 270,000 now).

[Shakotan_Aaron]

bigport 4ag and 4ac clutches haev the same part number, altho the 4ag has considerably more power.. i wasn't sure if this would be a similar case.

its a daily driver and wont have a lot of clutch abuse. planing to keep the motor stock as well. considering the GE version has not much less then the GTE in the way of grunt, i was thinking a new exedy replacement or even an organise HD (still full faced disk not a button) would be fine.

ive used a exedy HD organic in my corolla for the past 18months and ive given it hell and it still going strong (about to go on its 4th motor).

question 4 and 5 added to first post...


edit: did the non turbo z20/a70 come with w58 instead of R154????

[big_zop]

All 1Gs are W5x
All 7M-GEs are W5x
All other turbo (7M and 1JZ) are R154

Outputs are different between W and R, and all W5x series are interchangable in regards to bolt ons and in/output shafts - only differences that are easy(ish) to tell are ratios and bellhousings to suit engines (but these can obviously be swapped).

[Shakotan_Aaron]

okay thanks matey.. there are some questions answered...

[wilbo666]

Q1: what tailshaft will be needed to "bolt in" if there is a bolt in option? celica/ma61 supra front half with cressida rear half??? maybe?

Q2: are 1jz R154 and 2jzge manual flywheels interchangeable??

Q3: will a standard 2jzge clutch be fine with a GTE? it wont be launched, dragged or drifted. motor will be kept standard.

Q4: are R154 and W5x outputs the same?

Q5: are all W55/6/7/8 interchangeable as far as bellhousings/ in and output splines are conserned?

thanks in advance

2: No, R154 runs a pull type clutch, and W5x runs a push type clutch. I don't know of an push type pressure plates that bolt to the R154 flywheel, but it might be something worth looking into if you are trying to save money (R154 flywheel seem to be easier to find...)

3: In my thoughts, no. It will of course depend how you drive, but I'd at least go for a higher clamping force pressure plate.

4: No they are different as already said

5: Yes all W55, W57, W58 are externally the same (can't tell them apart looking at them). Bellhousing interchange and input and outputs are of course the same. Also avoid the W56 it is a truck box and has ratios that won't suit your application well IMHO.

Cheers
Wilbo

[Shakotan_Aaron]

thanks wilbo,

2: i know that the clutch systems are different, but to be a bit more specific. are the diameter (friction and over all ring gear) the same and the holes for bolting the pressure plate to fly the same...

[wilbo666]

thanks wilbo,

2: i know that the clutch systems are different, but to be a bit more specific. are the diameter (friction and over all ring gear) the same and the holes for bolting the pressure plate to fly the same...

I already said that I don't know of a push type pressure plate that bolts to the R154 flywheel if you read my post above This is because the mounting holes for the PP are different

I 'think' they are both 240mm OD friction faces on the driven plate, but I'm not 100% sure.

If it was me and I was trying to do it on a budget I'd try and find a cheap R154 flywheel and look at redrilling / machining it so that it took the standard 2JZGE PP (or a push type that directly bolts on if there is one...) and 2JZGE driven plate.

This may require redrilling for the PP, and reducing the friction face area OD (if R154 is larger than 2JZGE).



Cheers
Wilbo

[takai]

No, a W58 pressure plate wont bolt up to a R154 flywheel

I used a front half of a GA70 tailshaft and the rear half of a MX83 one, MX83 center bearing.

[Shakotan_Aaron]

okay then... thanks. probaly best to get the correct matching parts anyways

thanks takai, thats one thing crossed off my list!

[The Real Roadrunner]

call SSS automotive in Girraween NSW, they are selling brand new 2jzge-Wseries bellhousings and flywheels for alot cheaper than i can get them off toyota but im not sure how many they have left.

Both clutches are 236mm and the clutch disc is interchangeable, the PP are way different though as teh wilbo pointed out.

The flywheels may also have different heights to which could stop you from redrilling to suit but ive never compared them to find out.

all JZ ring gears are the same diameter + tooth count.

As for Question 3, i don't really like your chances as a GTE has a metric fookload of tourque at about 4200rpm or so when the second turbo comes in. in 1st and 2nd gear it will probly be fine but in 3rd gear or above under WOT with the weight of an MX83 i reckon any organic single plate will slip after a short time. But it would be better than breaking the W5# gearbox

Cheers
Linden

[Dieseltrain]

IM with RR on Q3 . Better off running a soft organic clutch as its cheaper for that to give up than breaking boxes . You may only be keeping it stock and not racing it, but all it will take is 1 WOT acceleration for the torque of that 2jgte to destroy the box .

[Shakotan_Aaron]

i really think a w-series will happily cop a bit of abuse from a GTE. from my experience my old man used to run a w58 behind his mild 308. while i know it doesnt have the "kick" of coming on boost. id think that a 5L would be putting out a fair bit of toque, it also had some fiarly huge rubber on the back so even when i have it a big rev and clutch drop it wouldnt spin 2nd gear much before hooking up. the first one lasted for about 8 years (previous owner had dragged it a few times etc) before it finally gave way while crusing along the highway

im much more concerned about the clutch slipping..

it will definitely be at WOT from time to time but im not really planning on giving the clutch too much abuse from kicking it or dumping it.

it will be used as a daily driver and to also cart a baby around so a button clutch is out of the question...

[wilbo666]

i really think a w-series will happily cop a bit of abuse from a GTE. from my experience my old man used to run a w58 behind his mild 308. while i know it doesnt have the "kick" of coming on boost. id think that a 5L would be putting out a fair bit of toque,

3L + 14.7psi of boost = 6L NA engine... (This is an approximation, but you get the idea)

Check out the 2JZGTE torque curve, it's made to break stuff

Again a lot of it comes down to driving style too...

Cheers
Wilbo

[Shakotan_Aaron]

14.7psi? where did that come from, i thought that it would have been more like 8-9psi stock boost (esp as im using a restrictive exhaust).

just took a peak on wiki..

2jzge 215 to 298 Nm
2jzgte 435 Nm

thats a bit of difference..

BUT...

..im my trail of thought, if i have a pressure plate thats an extra 20-25% higher clamp then that should help to make up the the difference in the torque output? higher clamping and more friction would create more heat, so a plate with a material that handles heat better would be ideal?