r154 shifting experiences

[splatt]

Sorry for the dig. Swapped over from RLSP to the Early ford ATF suggested here chasing SOME shifting improvement as the RLSP did SFA. Result; totally shit, EVEN notchier. After about an hour of highway cruising it was almost impossible to engage gears. I added the remaining 1l of leftover RLSP just to get a semi decent shifting experience. Conclusion; maybe good on other boxes, R154? no.

I'll be trying the VMX80 and thinking of trying the nulon gear box additive, in hte next week or so when I have time.

sorry you had a bad experience with it.I have a post 1995 box which is in very good condition,the early Ford in this particular box works well, shifts easy.I think better than with specified grade.
did mention that the box does not get a hammering, no track work, it just goes to the supermarket.
Post was intended to show cheap alternative that the154 runs well on, was not intended to indicate that it was a miracle cure for worn boxes,( a mechanic in a bottle.)

[ReQuieM]

Don't be sorry dude. You shared your experience, no mofo can fault you for that! Besides if working on cars has taught me anything its that every car and part is different whether they are the 'same' or not. Didn't work for me, doesn't mean it wont work for others. It's all trial and error. Next trial will be VMX

[Drift Motorsport]

Hey Guys,

My experience with Redline and VMX80 in a R154
VMX-80 - cheap oil - only use if you're a tightass and cant afford redline. You will still get a notchy 1-2 and 3-2 change even when warm.

Redline MTL - Great oil for the price. Still slightly notchy 1-2 and 3-2 but goes away when warm.

Redline Light Weight Shock Proof - Very good oil for Street and weekend drift / race meets. Notchyness between 1-2 and 3-2 goes away almost instantly. Very smooth shifting and less noise in the box. Costs around $145-175 for 3.8L and is enough to do one R154 gearbox.

Redline Heavy Weight Shock Proof - The Best gear oil you can buy. No notchyness, higher shear strength and better gear protection. Recommended for any High HP Gearbox. Costs the same as Light Weight as above.

Note: Always use an STP/Tom Thumb pump to get the oil pumped in. You will not waste any oil this way. Alternatively you could just dump the whole lot through the shifter housing on the non-remote shifter.

I have the Marlin Crawler / Driftmotion 1st Gear Thrust washer and Billet Bearing Retainer in at the moment.

I have 2x R154s that I will be using for my 600HP 1JZ. One has a smashed up 3-4 shifter fork and a few other issues and the other is a virgin.

I will be engineering and manufacturing the Cro-Mo BIllet Thrust Washer and Retainer in Australia very soon and I am currently working on Steel Shifter Forks.

The Shifter forks are a weak point in the R154 gearbox - especially if you shift like a retard during high RPM (bad clutch timing) or you race on the circuit. From my research, they break quite often in the USA in the JZA70 Supra's. No one that I know is doing any billet upgrade parts for the 1-2 and 3-4 shifter forks so I will be buying some standard ones from toyota and getting them CNC machined up.

I have not seen any boxes that have sheared the gearset yet (actual gearset failure - not shift fork debris lodging in the gearset). I would suggest that the Gearset should handle at least 750HP - espeically since there is a cast iron retainer plate in the middle to hold everything togehter.

The Nissan Boxes with their Alloy Plate fail due to the plate twisting under high torque loads and misaligning the gears - causing a huge shear force.

If people are interested in the Billet upgrade parts please send me an email to [email protected] . I will be posting up a htread and more information and perhaps a group buy on the forums. There's a need for these kind of parts as the R154 is a tough box with some really faulty designs in the shifter forks and thrust washer.

[MR 1JZ]

^ costa?

im interested in the thrust washer and shifter fork...

[ReQuieM]

Got me interested. cost? x2 I haven't ripped into a GB before so I'm sorry if I sound like a tool, whats involved in installing the fork?

On the oil subject, you didn't find the heavy weight TOO thick for the R154? what was it like in the cold? People have commented before on glazing the syncros with shock proof (as its designed for a straight cut gear set) the was no sign of glazing or other damage from running the heavy weight?

[Drift Motorsport]

Yup its Costa

Oil topic - can you please define glazing and the effect that it causes?

To solve the 1st gear thrust washer failure, you really need to tackle it at both ends. The bearing retainer keeps the bearing true and square - and the thrust washer is upgraded out of a harder material without any groves etc to cause a stress concentration and thus failure.

I have not got exact quotes yet as I just sent my samples to the engineer for a quote on Thursday. Im hoping to get the quote back on Tuesday/Wednesday. The washers and retainer retail for $80 USD each = $160 + $40 shipping = $200 USD = Around $355 Delivered to your door AUD. If the quote is too high and over this cost for both due to Australian machine costs, material and labor - I will organise a group buy from the USA so everyone can share the billet goodness and stop smashing their thrust washer.

The billet forks are complicated to machine so im guessing they would cost around $275-300 Delivered each in mild steel and around $100 more for cro-molly. You will need two as this will replace the shifteforks for 1-2 and 3-4. 5th gear can be done on request but I dont think it would be worth it.

After these upgrades - the only thing that should fail would be the gearset - and that's a tall order as the Toyota gears are very very strong and stronger than Nissan R33. I have yet to see a case of a smashed gearset due to pure shear failure. I have seen bits of shifter fork lodged in the gear set - classic shifter fork then gearset failure - but that is to be expected when you have 7,000 rpm changes and a 10x5mm chunk of alloy from the shifter fork getting wedged between the main shaft and counter shaft.

I will be posting pictures of the smashed shifter fork and taking some measurements. These things are so light and made out of cast alloy which is SUPER pourous - im amazed that they dont fail often!

To register your interest, please EMAIL me as im starting a database.
I will need the following info emailed to [email protected]
Full Name:
Forum: ie: toymods
Email Address:
Mobile Number:
Parts: ie: Billet Bearing Retainer + Thrust Washer + 1-2 Shifter fork + 3-4 Shifter Fork

[splatt]

True or false?
Toyota fixed the thrust washer problem on the later R154's (with longer remote?)
I have one of these, never gets thrashed,and no problems in this department.

[Drift Motorsport]

False - I have both boxes apart and its the same shape and geometry.

"I have one of these, never gets thrashed,and no problems in this department." - if you grandma your box around - it will be within its stress limits. Add 300+rwkw + Clutch Kick + Slicks + Drag Racing = broken thrust washer due to shock loading. You will break the thrust washer when in 1st only. The other thrust washers seem to handle the abuse. keep in mind that 1st has a torque multiplier of ~3.2:1 being the shortest gear so you will have more axial / thrust loading on the washer due to the helical gear. If you had a straight cut gearset - there is < ~2% axial loading so you can use a less advanced thrust washer.
They may have upgraded the material or increase the case hardening of the sintered material but its still a problem in all R154 gearboxes. Big Power + 1st gear launch and you will shock load it and break it.

People have mentioned that you can run a needle bearing thrust washer but that's also false. Needle roller thrust bearings are there to take mild axial loads in machinery and are not desigend to cope with the massive shock loading the 1st gear has on the thrust washer. The thrust washer is only about 5mm thick which means that at minmum, the backing plates of the thrust bearing if you were to go aftermarket would be 1.5mm each side + 2mm rollers.

There's heaps of misinformation on the internet about these boxes. I've got two of them in my garage apart and have clearly analyzed their weaknesses. Bearing Retainer + Thrust washer in Cro-Mo will solve the thrust washer issue. The sintered material of the stock thrust washer is VERY brittle once the case hardening wears out. If you notice the fractures - they always are in the oil groves and in the keyway - hardly ever on the actual thicker part of the washer. The factory bearing retainer is die pressed mild steel - great but not the best. The kits that I will be doing are twice as thick and are made out of cro-molly steel.

The shifter forks are a damn joke and weigh about 150grams each. They are cast aluminium and have heaps of stress concentrations. The 3-4 fork will break due to the torque the gear lever puts on the shift arm + the sleve to change in to 3-4 has a lot of free play by design. 1-2 is has a double grove to keep it in place. 3-4 has a single groove. Toyota cut corners on the 3-4 setup.

All R154 boxes are SINGLE synchromesh gearboxes, hence why 1-2 and 3-2 changes are a bit tight and notchy.

Once my build is ready with all the billet upgrades and 400rwkw - the gearset will either break next or another weak point. In either case - I will upgrade those parts as I break them

[MR 1JZ]

all of this money and effort...why not just go for a T56 with custom bellhousing or a getrag costa?

the whole appeal of the R154 is they are fairly good for up to around 350rwkw and they can be had on the cheap (most of the time)

[Drift Motorsport]

R154 is a cheap option thats bolt on and factory Toyota OEM. No dicking around - off shelf parts for any Soarer/Supra conversion. I have been lucky enough to buy a whole Soarer conversion on the cheap as a spare and I have my remote shifter R154 that's done around 80,000kms as the race box while I build and improve the other one.

Consider that a custom bell housing + starter + tail shaft + shifter mods + correct diff ratio etc and the actual gearbox will cost more than an R154 setup complete. Add more $$$ if you need a custom clutch + pull->push converter and slave etc. The head fscks and downtime are not worth changing gearboxes unless I'm smashing one every race meet. I dont think the inconvenience and headaches are worth switching to a Tremec or Getrag for my setup yet.

Besides, I'll upgrade to a RZ Supra when they reach around 16k in 6spd form Lol ill be slowly converting the soarer into a supra with the brake setup and 2J in the next 2 years. Best of both words in my opinion - looks like a sleeper, all the luxo barge features and can still hold its own in the chassis and suspension department. Only downside to a soarer is the weight factor but that can be fixed with supra seats and a few improvements here and there.

R154 gearset should be able to cope with abuse and around 350-400rwkw out of a 1J/2J setup Behind an LS1 it would fail due to the torque load, but behind a 1J or 2J it should be right at home with the torque output and high RPM.

Besides, I'm an engineer - I enjoy making custom parts and spreading that knowledge through the production of my parts and business. I'ts all a big lego set at the end of the day.

[Drift Motorsport]

3-4 Shifter Fork - Kaboom!

[Disturbed1]

all of this money and effort...why not just go for a T56 with custom bellhousing or a getrag costa?

the whole appeal of the R154 is they are fairly good for up to around 350rwkw and they can be had on the cheap (most of the time)

can comment on the whole head fuck ordeal..


just because u think your upgradign to a better box doesnt mean u wont hav eproblems again.....

ive had nothing but problems with my tremec box

[splatt]

[QUOTE=Drift Motorsport]False - I have both boxes apart and its the same shape and geometry.
Great Post, information from someone that obviously knows what they are talking about.

"I have one of these, never gets thrashed,and no problems in this department." - if you grandma your box around ....
OK,I'm 62, but granddad, if you don't mind

[Disturbed1]

shouldnt u be at bingo??



j/k

[JZA70 R]

costa you got me sold. good work mate, glad you popped in.